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: That also invalidates a separate Health/Armor class, I suppose, since some of those are Items too.
 
: That also invalidates a separate Health/Armor class, I suppose, since some of those are Items too.
 
: Any other suggestions? --[[User:Xymph|Xymph]] ([[User talk:Xymph|talk]]) 03:00, 6 August 2016 (CDT)
 
: Any other suggestions? --[[User:Xymph|Xymph]] ([[User talk:Xymph|talk]]) 03:00, 6 August 2016 (CDT)
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:: I'd say put both in Items. The Bag definitely is one, and the backpack doesn't behave exactly like an ammo pickup (for example you can pick up backpacks even if your ammo is already fully maxed out). Health and armor would include things such as medikit, stimpack, crystal vial, silver shield, amulet of warding, etc. but health bonus, armor bonus, berserk pack, quartz flask, and dragonskin bracers are items.
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::Basically my "item" litmus test is this: if it's counted up as an item on the intermission, goes in your inventory in Heretic or Hexen*, and/or is always picked up when you run over it, it's an item. (Unless it's a key.) [*In Strife pretty much everything goes into your inventory, so this criteria is only for the Raven games.] --[[User:Gez|Gez]] ([[User talk:Gez|talk]]) 03:13, 19 August 2016 (CDT)
  
 
==Tables==
 
==Tables==

Revision as of 03:13, 19 August 2016

Ordering

The Backpack is categorized a powerup in Doom tables, while the Bag of Holding is considered a collection of ammo in Heretic tables. I have a mild preference for the latter approach. What's odd here is that the Bag of Holding is a powerup in Heretic (it's one of the items that are counted for collection in the end of level statistics) but not in Doom. --Gez (talk) 17:44, 5 August 2016 (CDT)

Ah, good point. So you suggest to put the Backpack with the Ammo class, and the BoH with the Items? Or both with Items?
That also invalidates a separate Health/Armor class, I suppose, since some of those are Items too.
Any other suggestions? --Xymph (talk) 03:00, 6 August 2016 (CDT)
I'd say put both in Items. The Bag definitely is one, and the backpack doesn't behave exactly like an ammo pickup (for example you can pick up backpacks even if your ammo is already fully maxed out). Health and armor would include things such as medikit, stimpack, crystal vial, silver shield, amulet of warding, etc. but health bonus, armor bonus, berserk pack, quartz flask, and dragonskin bracers are items.
Basically my "item" litmus test is this: if it's counted up as an item on the intermission, goes in your inventory in Heretic or Hexen*, and/or is always picked up when you run over it, it's an item. (Unless it's a key.) [*In Strife pretty much everything goes into your inventory, so this criteria is only for the Raven games.] --Gez (talk) 03:13, 19 August 2016 (CDT)

Tables

Five tables side-by-side for Hexen is perhaps a bit much, so maybe something should be made collapsible, or the multiplayer tables should be below the singleplayer ones? It might be possible to adapt the maptab template to put each table in a different tab? --Gez (talk) 11:37, 14 August 2016 (CDT)

Do you want me to give it a try? I think I know what failed. Look below for the hoop I'm jumping through:

Tab with tableOther tab
This table should work
I guess I hope

As you can see, since everything is in a template, all the pipes (|) are interpreted as argument separators for the template. The solution is to use {{!}} for every pipe character that isn't an argument separator for tab2. It's a special magic word. (It used to be a common template before that, but I discovered when trying to use {{tl}} to link it that it wasn't one anymore.) Anyway, I think I can make it work. --Gez (talk) 15:49, 14 August 2016 (CDT)

That's an interesting suggestion, but then with its parent Tab2 template. Unfortunately, my first two attempts failed miserably – Quasar wasn't kidding that this tab stuff takes a lot of effort to get right. That was before I saw your response above, so I copied this one to a new edit window so as not to overwrite that. :)
My initial approach would be to put Hexen's three single-player tables in the first tab, and the two multiplayer ones in the other. There are no Tab3 and Tab5 templates, and since three tables do fit well enough within reasonably sized browser windows, it seems overkill to put each table in a tab. Especially if this is to be applied consistently to all games and vanilla Doom/Heretic maps use just two tables. How this works out on mobile devices is another matter though.
So, with your timely reminder about the |->! escape, this might work as yet, though the whole thing would become pretty unreadable and difficult to edit manually – but still easy to generate via the tool. I'll give it a go.
However, DMMPST so far is able to process all games in a generic way with a single Things template and some decision logic in the code. Breaking up Hexen's tables into two groups would make that much harder, if not require a separate processing branch – which I really would like to avoid.
PS. Your offer of tab-help is appreciated, but I would be helped even more by a response in the main discussion topic. --Xymph (talk) 16:18, 14 August 2016 (CDT)
I'm not sure exactly what is the main topic here, since this has all been spread about everywhere, as you noticed. On central processing? --Gez (talk) 18:04, 14 August 2016 (CDT)
The most recent and all-encompassing one you initiated, yes. --Xymph (talk) 01:41, 15 August 2016 (CDT)

List of things

Since you've added the stealth monsters, you should probably add also the MBF dog (888) -- it's used at least in Valiant (where is is dehacked into an arachnorb). --Gez (talk) 17:15, 18 August 2016 (CDT)

Soitenly. And while you're here again, could you answer my question above? Otherwise I'll assume that the current classification of both items is fine. --Xymph (talk) 02:09, 19 August 2016 (CDT)