User talk:Ryan W/Cacowards search terms

Impersonating troll
Are you looking for User:ConSiGno/Sandbox-Little_Temple_Group? --Quasar (talk) 22:58, 1 March 2016 (CST)


 * That's it! Dunno why I couldn't find any of those threads based on kmxexii's description.  If others actually have the stomach to draft such articles, then I'll certainly leave them to it.  Thanks much.    Ryan W (talk) 22:38, 2 March 2016 (CST)

Incorrect links
Hi, here's a (possibly incomplete) list of redlinks that are meant to point to existing pages or should at least be pointing elsewhere, in case such pages exist in future. I'm trying to clean up Special:WantedPages a bit, there's quite a few at the bottom that are only pointing to this page.


 * AD-79 -> Brayden Hart (AD_79) or AD_79
 * Matt Powell (Cannonball) -> Matt Powell (cannonball) (I don't understand why this redlinks, but it does.)
 * Ditto for Chris Bourke (purist) and Christian Lian (darkreaver).
 * S.U.P.E.R.N.A.T.U.R.A.L -> S.U.P.E.R. Natural
 * Anything 32in24-xx -> 32in24 (series)
 * Nicholas Monti -> Nicolas Monti
 * WolvenDoom: Blade of Agony -> WolfenDoom: Blade of Agony
 * Slaughtermap -> Slaughter map
 * Coffee Break Episode I -> Coffee Break
 * No End in Sight -> No End In Sight
 * Mordeth E2 -> Mordeth
 * Invisible sector -> Self-referencing sector (?)
 * Ghouls vs Humans -> The Ghoul's Forest (series)
 * Doom: Threshold of Pain -> Threshold of Pain
 * Voodoo doll scripting -> Voodoo doll
 * Also, my name isn't Aries Thölin! :)

--Eris Falling (talk) 11:48, 27 March 2017 (CDT)


 * Wow, thanks for reading so carefully, which I didn't expect anyone to do ever. :>   I changed the most obvious cases per the intro section, but I will come back when more brain cells are available &mdash; it's possible that some should be redirects, especially if they will someday be articles theoretically (like 32in24).  Sorry about the name, also; I have no idea where I found that!    Ryan W (usually gone) 17:27, 28 March 2017 (CDT)


 * I'm not against having each 32in24 having its own article (especially those linked to cacowards, that includes -16). I've redirected their most common names so far, I guess subtitles and stuff can be handled if those individual articles actually happen. At some point I'll probably do the same for some of those other series, like KZDoom. --Eris Falling (talk) 17:49, 28 March 2017 (CDT)


 * No objection here. I think DM maps usually don't have articles because fragging is more fun than markup.  :>    Ryan W (usually gone) 17:57, 28 March 2017 (CDT)


 * IMO voodoo doll scripting should have its own article, due to the longevity of the topic and the length required for technical descriptions with examples (yes, I realize I'm saying this without dropping everything to start it RIGHT NOW). I can't prevent anyone from creating a redirect or a brief stub to get rid of the redlink, but at least if there is a redlink, people will occasionally be reminded that content could be added, which is the whole purpose of that list.    Ryan W (usually gone) 14:11, 7 April 2017 (CDT)

Part 2
By request, I've given the list another look through:


 * Town of Witchcraft -> Town Of Witchcraft (really MediaWiki?)
 * Halo of Wonders -> Halo Of Wonders
 * The Community Is Falling 2 -> The Community is Falling 2
 * Strife: Return of The Order -> Return of The Order
 * Strife: Day of the Acolyte -> Day of the Acolyte
 * Shadows of Cronos -> Shadows of Chronos
 * Matthew McGee (AgentSpork) -> Matthew McGee (Agent Spork)
 * Doom 64 For Doom II -> Doom 64 for Doom II
 * Happy Time Circus 2 -> Happy Time Circus II
 * Ravage -> Jason Allison (rf`)


 * I'll take your word for these, noting in passing that a couple are against the style guideline. That doesn't mean you're wrong &mdash; we already had other examples, which suggests the guideline itself needs review.    Ryan W (living fossil) 12:16, 15 September 2018 (CDT)

I don't see anything else that's incorrect for now, but there are a few cases where I'm not sure if stuff really needs to be linked:


 * Individual demos: We have some articles for these already, but I'm not sure if most of the ones on the list warrant their own article. 30pn4357 strikes me as the most obvious candidate for an article as it was long considered to be impossible, and even received some media attention. Maybe 30uv1959 too, Doom II in under 20 minutes non-TAS.


 * Nobody knows. Off the top of my head, I'd guess you're right, by analogy with the discussions on WAD significance; the written rule even says as much, but like most it was added without discussion IIRC.  We have had so little expert input on speedrunning that the big evolutionary changes (venues, strategies, collaborations, verification tools) remain basically undocumented thus far.
 * This is a case that falls under the "patience" section of my DWF post. If you or anyone else wants to start an actual visible thread and try to build consensus on criteria, you're completely free to do that.  (I never have because I'm not yet in a position to do the legwork, though I remain a COMPET-N fanboy and would like to help.)  Until then, guidelines aren't decided on user talk, and removing red links won't solve the problem, only conceal it until someone creates a more professional TODO.  Hope that makes some sense; I've had no caffeine today. Ryan W (living fossil)


 * Glass floor/ceiling: Portal?
 * Apparently the quote is: "Doom has recently turned 12 . . . In that time we've see almost everything there is to Doom: pacifist Map07, glass floors and ceilings, and the advent of powerful ports." Not very specific, although in the context of a highly sophisticated vanilla mod, one could infer it's something vanilla-based. Ryan W (living fossil)


 * GL lighting: Not sure what this article would be. First thing that springs to mind is dynamic light, which is admittedly a fairly simplistic article, but it does go beyond that.
 * Related to this, Scuba says. I know nothing of Legacy modding so that's all I can say right now. Ryan W (living fossil)


 * Void 2: Nonexistent WAD
 * Women in the Doom community: Not sure what this article would be.
 * I'm not sure either, but I recall reading about it from time to time, and my own lack of historical knowledge or common sense shouldn't preclude coverage of important subjects. Is the Doom community unusual in this regard, by comparison with gamers/fandoms as a whole?   for example suggests we are like everyone else (in which case we can probably defer to the competent journalists already involved). Ryan W (living fossil)


 * NM pacifist: Not an "officially recognised" category. Such runs are treated as NM speed and maybe have a notice saying they are also pacifist runs.
 * That's true as far as competition goes, but IIRC people still use the term. When I get to rereading the COMPET-N forums I will add something to the NM speed page if it seems significant (and therefore create the redirect). Ryan W (living fossil)


 * Darknation's rectum: C'mon now :P
 * Okay, okay, okay. I guess I was trying REALLY hard not to inject my own judgement calls as I went along. Ryan W (living fossil)


 * Voidship 2 + The Lost Gateway: Nonexistent WADs
 * GL Fog: We have a general fog article, and the ZDoom wiki article has a brief outline of OpenGL extensions.
 * It means whatever implemented  :>  though I suspect you're on the right track.  (In general we've developed a habit of omitting ZDoom editing details because the ZDoom wiki does them so thoroughly, which is a reasonable position in terms of prioritization, but IMO we should at least have taxonomies with links someday.  For all ports.) Ryan W (living fossil)


 * Russian Overkill: Reinforcements from Moldova: I was working on a Russian Overkill draft years ago, but never finished it. Reinforcements from Moldova was an expansion that was later merged into the main mod, so this would just become redirect.
 * Fair enough; removed. Ryan W (living fossil)


 * Start to crate: Fun as it was, I'm not convinced sidebar filler merits its own article.
 * Point taken; I was about to suggest putting it in the jargon list, but then was reminded that the Doom community didn't actually invent it! Yeesh. Ryan W (living fossil)


 * Deus Vult II 2: Hypothetical WAD sequel, afaik.
 * Silent teleporter: I think there's not much to say about these other than what's already in the main teleporter article. Redirect?
 * Looking more carefully, I see the page already exists, albeit tagged for merging. Ryan W (living fossil)


 * 4chan: Non-Doom website, doesn't merit its own article.


 * IMO a generic tech topic can be written up if specific Doom-related activity occurred there and accumulated a sub-community for a period of time. We already have articles on shareware and Usenet groups, and someone could easily add YouTube if they were a regular.  OTOH there are cases where Doomers don't do anything differently than the rest of the internet, and so don't need an article.  "DRM" comes to mind, and perhaps "Abandonware" can redirect to GetWAD. :7  Ryan W (living fossil)


 * Survival: This is just co-op with a lives limit. Redirect to Multiplayer I guess, and add a short sentence.
 * If that works for you, it works for me. Ryan W (living fossil)


 * Combat Shock 3: Borderline hypothetical WAD I guess. It existed at some point, then some maps turned up in Sunlust, and the rest is unknown.
 * Every unreleased WAD on this list: In general the guideline is that unreleased mods don't qualify for articles, some will eventually be released, others maybe not. I'm not sure if this question has ever arisen, but should they even be linked to in the first place?


 * A red link is a normal and expected step in an article's life cycle. Even in the (very rare!) cases where non-notability was crystal clear, prohibiting red links would hurt more than it helped IMO &mdash; our rules should never imply that only "finished" content may be submitted.  It's a wiki; if an edit has seams showing, it will get stitched up sooner or later.  Most aren't even visible or googleable in the meantime.
 * The "unreleased mod" guideline has been controversial ever since it was written. I disputed it myself when I showed up, then tried to enforce it, with ugly results.  Over the years, discussions like this have happened which strongly suggest most people don't approve, and nowadays I agree: it's too blunt an instrument for the diverse actions and reactions of the Doom populace.  A mapset can be uploaded without making an impression, a vaporware mapset can gather intense interest, and in between is a continuum.
 * Of the unreleased WADs named by the Cacoward writers, I'm pretty sure some are legitimately in while others are jokes.  I often can't tell the difference, however, because I'm stuck in 1994 and not following the news headlines.  You are far more connected, but if you aren't certain either, I don't see harm in leaving the links alone until this page is deleted. Ryan W (living fossil)

--Eris Falling (talk) 11:23, 25 August 2018 (CDT) (edited 2018-08-31)


 * I think that's everything in your list (the part at the end is meant to apply to every unavailable WAD/mod). Thank you again for all of your research.    Ryan W (living fossil) 16:07, 15 September 2018 (CDT)

←←← "sans" should be the same redlink as "sans.". --Xymph (talk) 16:36, 8 November 2018 (CST)

Word puzzles
Watson/Collins: Void + Ship + sequel = No idea for the second; it seems the first two words would have to be "Awful Lost" and there's nothing that starts like this on the idgames archive. --Gez (talk) 14:22, 7 April 2017 (CDT)


 * Maybe a year or so back, idgames reviews switched to have newest first. So you're actually after "The Lost." Out of the Robinsons' works, I found . The closest I could find that combines all three was . --Eris Falling (talk) 15:00, 7 April 2017 (CDT)


 * Damn &mdash; you could have uploaded my brain and I wouldn't have seen that. Using it as an example, I can find "The" + "Lost" +  =, but that seems too obscure for the author to believe it was a fair challenge.  I think we'll go with yours.    Ryan W (usually gone) 17:03, 7 April 2017 (CDT)

Chord, Kaiser
The three Chord-y redlinks can be replaced by their canonical Chord NG, Chord G and Chord 3 versions; and "How Not to Be Seen" with How Not To Be Seen!.

The 2013 entry for "Untitled #2" should point to Untitled 2, "Halo of Wonders" to Halo Of Wonders, "Town of Witchcraft" to Town Of Witchcraft, "Strife: Return of The Order" to Return of The Order, and "Strife: Day of the Acolyte" to Day of the Acolyte.

In all cases the search terms page has the only link to them, so redirects seem unnecessary, but that's your call. --Xymph (talk) 07:17, 28 August 2018 (CDT)

Another one: Classic Episode 2: Singularity Complex -> The Classic Episode, Part 2. --Xymph (talk) 10:46, 11 September 2018 (CDT)


 * Chord: fixed. I'm doing this without checking TITLEPICs or anything, so in the year 71853 when I reach the third-party walkthroughs, I may ping you and Eris again.  :>
 * How Not To Be Seen: fixed.
 * Untitled: fixed, my fault. (With the amount of time this took, I didn't notice reserved characters?)
 * Redirects: upon rereading Eris's posts, I agree with you. We don't say "Heretic: Heretic Treasure Chest", for example, just because it happens to use a non-Doom IWAD.
 * Classic Episode: fixed.
 * Thank you, as always, for wanting there to be actual game content underneath certain people's pontifications. :>    Ryan W (living fossil)

Deletion
Others have expended substantial effort to improve this page, so I'll try to explain.

I don't think I had a clear plan in 2016, and I still don't. Perhaps I hoped that missing coverage would simply materialize as redlinks, as a side effect of the continued work of the bot and several users creating umbrella articles (who do a great job btw!). But in hindsight, it seems virtually redundant with the publication. Awardees and runners-up are as uncontroversial as before, and non-modding topics are as uncertain as before. I'm sure I was the wrong person to do triage as well; plugged-in community members can immediately separate a joke or a deliberately off-topic proposal from a rising star.

It's been stated that we treat DW as the start and end of historiography, which hopelessly skews our scope discussions. Without rehashing that debate, I'll note how many other general references have gone dark since the 1990s. Those of us who weren't involved back then, and can't afford to travel the world scouring offline media, sometimes feel confined. If I were starting this list today, I would advance one subtopic at a time in an RFC: speedrunning, development and advanced features, mapping tropes/tricks, 1994 mods, 1995 mods, ... That wouldn't immediately solve the problem, but the smaller territory might make it easier to focus (myself included) and establish methods for locating specialized/archival sources in each area. Ideally, after enough iterations, trends might emerge that finally pointed us toward a general guideline. See these threads for some related discussion about WADs.

Anyway, my offer to move the list to someone else's space stands, if you think it can eventually lead somewhere. Currently, what I'm hearing from the feedback is that it mainly serves to bloat Special:WantedPages. :( Thanks again to the contributors above, for their attention to detail and for seeing implications I missed.    Ryan W (living fossil) 01:23, 15 December 2019 (CST)