Difference between revisions of "Doom Wiki:Central Processing/2015"

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m (Raven engine games)
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:AFAIK the CyClones engine is not based on the Raven engine, and was instead written in-house. Personally I have no objection to having more short articles about contemporary games but it would represent widening this wiki's scope. --[[User:Gez|Gez]] ([[User talk:Gez|talk]]) 06:53, 2 June 2015 (CDT)
 
:AFAIK the CyClones engine is not based on the Raven engine, and was instead written in-house. Personally I have no objection to having more short articles about contemporary games but it would represent widening this wiki's scope. --[[User:Gez|Gez]] ([[User talk:Gez|talk]]) 06:53, 2 June 2015 (CDT)
 
:: Raven called it a "rewrite" but we've found evidence that it was not "complete." For example it still uses the same resource formats and archives. This means it's heavily related; watching any video of the game will also show that it still largely behaves the same, with some added flexibilities. As far as scope, the reason I think these fit is because the engine they're using is a direct predecessor of Doom - the earliest 0.2 alpha even contains some of the same source code file names in its binary, showing just how close the evolutionary relationship really is. --[[User:Quasar|Quasar]] ([[User talk:Quasar|talk]]) 19:45, 2 June 2015 (CDT)
 
:: Raven called it a "rewrite" but we've found evidence that it was not "complete." For example it still uses the same resource formats and archives. This means it's heavily related; watching any video of the game will also show that it still largely behaves the same, with some added flexibilities. As far as scope, the reason I think these fit is because the engine they're using is a direct predecessor of Doom - the earliest 0.2 alpha even contains some of the same source code file names in its binary, showing just how close the evolutionary relationship really is. --[[User:Quasar|Quasar]] ([[User talk:Quasar|talk]]) 19:45, 2 June 2015 (CDT)
 +
::The definition of a "rewrite" can be a bit ambiguous. I think it was Quake 3 or Doom 3 that was supposedly on a rewritten engine but there are still many similarities to previous engines (see AI code that traces back to catacomb).  While that branch of the engine definitely has its own name and should be mentioned as such, for the purposes of this wiki I think it's safe to file them under the same article.  (At least until someone bothers to do enough reverse engineering to technically explain the difference.)
 +
::On that note, perhaps instead of full articles we can just have articles on the engines have a section therein for each game?  Seems like it would be a good compromise if we have no real intention of covering individual games in depth, but I don't know how that would affect search rankings.  [[User:Blzut3|Blzut3]] ([[User talk:Blzut3|talk]]) 20:46, 2 June 2015 (CDT)

Revision as of 20:46, 2 June 2015

This is the central discussion forum for wiki editing and administration activity on the Doom Wiki. Feel free to ask any questions or pose any concerns you have here, and you should receive a response shortly. Check the archived discussions for older threads.

Archived discussions

Big fat list of Vfd

Ladies and gentlemen, I'm laying here a list of articles that are currently (as of today, I mean) in a VfD. I know there is a category but I'll just leave this here, along with the dates, which I think are important.

Also, these categories:

Also, these files:

I did not vote on most of them because I'm a horrible person, but you knew that already. --Kyano (talk) 21:21, 25 July 2014 (UTC)

About the Bruiser Demon case, my opinion three years later would be that maybe the policy ought to be rethought. I think there is some justification for having pages on individual resources when they are notable enough. Many custom monsters have become more-or-less standard staples (and I'm not talking just about custom ZDoom monsters here, DeHackEd wonderkids like the evil marines or the afrit are memorable and noteworthy) and I've seen them discussed casually in Doomworld threads that weren't specifically about them. And we do have individual articles for one specific kind of resource already (maps), so given the emergence of gameplay mods which do not have maps but do change monsters and weapons, it might be time to allow individual articles for other resources than maps. Just to be clear though, I think this should be reserved for memorable resources that have been used in several high-profile works and where the behavior has known little or no alteration between their various versions. So the Bruiser Demon (KDIZD, Stronghold, ZDCMP2...) would qualify, but the upside-down orange caco from Zen Dynamics (and AFAIK no other mod) wouldn't. --Gez (talk) 13:32, 28 July 2014 (UTC)
I agree for the most part, but it's important IMO that we very strongly distinguish between these resource monsters and the original ones. For example, having them in their own category (not just Monsters, but maybe User-created monsters or some other suitable subcat). --Quasar (talk) 14:35, 28 July 2014 (UTC)
As a side note, the proposed speedy deletion criteria would only affect two of these, Doom23.gif and Ralphis.jpg (and the first might need to stay until the glitch gets fixed, can't remember).    Ryan W (talk) 23:16, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
I would oppose speedy delete of Doom23.gif for now; I've been using it to monitor the status of whether or not GIF thumbnailing has been fixed (this is a server-side backend issue which is due to the distro of Linux on MancuNET being too old...) --Quasar (talk) 17:03, 23 August 2014 (UTC)

Just to clarify things, I only nominated the redirect to the aquarius page, not the actual page. That was nominated by Grain of Salt. Justice ∞ (talk) 02:47, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

Archiving

In the future, I suggest archiving not the previous year, but the one before. E.g., please don't archive 2015 in 2016; instead wait until 2017. Thanks. --Gez (talk) 10:45, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

I'm apt to agree except for how massive the article starts to get. I think last year has a record number of issues that should still be considered open and actionable. It's getting to the point where I might have to consider having something more effective for tracking them, like a Bugzilla instance somewhere for example. --Quasar (talk) 14:24, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

January 2015 upgrade

manc and I will be attempting to upgrade the wiki to MediaWiki 1.24.1 as of tomorrow, assuming all goes to plan. This time it seems that the only major question is the EmbedVideo plugin (as usual), so that's one thing that will need immediate verification after the upgrade. --Quasar (talk) 15:32, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

We are now up and running on MediaWiki 1.24.1 - a couple minor issues remain, and I'm still testing some stuff. Report anything you find here. --Quasar (talk) 03:56, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
It seems most of our extensions were not upgraded, so a number of them are currently broken. Currently known to not be working:
Special:CheckUser (if user has permission to use, throws an exception)
Special:Editcount (always throws an exception)
Will keep this list updated until the situation is resolved. --Quasar (talk) 20:08, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
I have updated all extensions except EmbedVideo. So far everything is working, but it's impossible to test that much stuff exhaustively. --SpiderMastermind (talk) 23:43, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Group image VfD

Following up an IRC conversation, I have opened a deletion thread for 57 images recently added to Enter the Doom Chapter I: Lucido Attack and Enter the Doom Chapter 2: Legacy.  Please feel free to contribute your opinions here.    Ryan W (talk) 00:02, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Strife minor characters

Please comment on or help advance the status of the three merger requests for Strife minor characters Ketrick, Sammis, and Ulaine. Of the existing articles, these are the only ones that I feel should be merged. All three are explained in Strife minor characters - Hub 1. --Quasar (talk) 19:22, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

I think the merge is a good idea. MacGuffin could be considered a minor character as well, but I guess he is unique enough for a separate article. --Jartapran (talk) 00:52, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
MacGuffin is borderline but there are SEO considerations for him if nothing else redeems him; we are linked to from at least tvtropes for our article on him. I think a big enough deal is made out of him, similarly to Worner, for him to have his own page. Sammis, while he does possess a plot-important key, is never referred to in the third person by anyone else (they all tell you to go to Ketrick instead, who is actually a red herring), and can be killed without ever talking to him in order to get the key. It's a gray zone but I prefer we keep most of the well-written, already pictured character articles. It's a small set that will never grow any larger. Speaking of pics, I will be adding some to the minor characters pages when I can get around to it. --Quasar (talk) 01:18, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
While Ketrik and Sammis have some minor plot relevance, Ulaine does not so this article at least should be a no-brainer. --Gez (talk) 08:13, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

Add autocheck to Jartapran

I think User:Jartapran is a good candidate to try out the "autochecked" group permission on, as he is already an editor and reviewer and has demonstrated universally high quality of editing and willingness to work together on various important projects. I've suggested he mull over requesting admin rights, but would like to try out that permission on him in the meanwhile. Put it to a vote here. --Quasar (talk) 22:15, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

No objection. --Gez (talk) 00:00, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
Jartapran pointed out that editors already have autocheck, so we determined that the missing permission was in fact autopatrol, which only admins currently had. I added autopatrol to the reviewers group, which currently includes Jartapran and DoomAD besides admins who are implicit members, since it seems logical enough. --Quasar (talk) 19:07, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
I was just about to suggest that when my computer started to appear compromised and I unplugged it.  :7   Good show.    Ryan W (talk) 22:15, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Doom 64 maps

We now have nearly two full sets: old, new.  Which should we keep?  They seem to differ in color scheme and line weight.

(IMO this is no one's fault, just something that happens on wikis when a project is left half-finished for a long time.)    Ryan W (talk) 01:29, 9 May 2015 (UTC)

Vote keep both, because the old set have been marked up with walkthrough tags which are only useful when discussing the map in its own context. It's impossible to do comparative kind of stuff with images that have walkthrough tags on them. --Quasar (talk) 19:53, 1 June 2015 (CDT)
Point taken, since we already do this for the DOS series.  Let the first stone be cast by him whose to-do list is getting shorter.  :>     Ryan W (talk) 16:13, 2 June 2015 (CDT)
PS, I am mulling over some plans that might make it possible to toggle between the walkthrough markup images and the normal ones in-article, but it'd probably require some work in our Common.js, which is always fun. I'd be doing this for all the canonical map articles where both variants exist using some kind of template, provided I can make it work satisfactorily. I'll let you know when I start working on it (I'll be experimenting in a sandbox, needless to say). --Quasar (talk) 19:49, 2 June 2015 (CDT)
That sounds excellent!    Ryan W (talk) 20:05, 2 June 2015 (CDT)

Raven engine games

Given that we have an article for Shadowcaster, which was at the time made due to it being based on a transitional pre-Doom engine and with a lack of evidence that any other game was using that engine, should we have matching articles for CyClones and In Pursuit of Greed? Both of these games are fairly poorly documented on the net. The Wikipedia article for CyClones should have a stub notice on it, it's so bare. Linking to it is about as good as not doing so at all. --Quasar (talk) 19:52, 1 June 2015 (CDT)

AFAIK the CyClones engine is not based on the Raven engine, and was instead written in-house. Personally I have no objection to having more short articles about contemporary games but it would represent widening this wiki's scope. --Gez (talk) 06:53, 2 June 2015 (CDT)
Raven called it a "rewrite" but we've found evidence that it was not "complete." For example it still uses the same resource formats and archives. This means it's heavily related; watching any video of the game will also show that it still largely behaves the same, with some added flexibilities. As far as scope, the reason I think these fit is because the engine they're using is a direct predecessor of Doom - the earliest 0.2 alpha even contains some of the same source code file names in its binary, showing just how close the evolutionary relationship really is. --Quasar (talk) 19:45, 2 June 2015 (CDT)
The definition of a "rewrite" can be a bit ambiguous. I think it was Quake 3 or Doom 3 that was supposedly on a rewritten engine but there are still many similarities to previous engines (see AI code that traces back to catacomb). While that branch of the engine definitely has its own name and should be mentioned as such, for the purposes of this wiki I think it's safe to file them under the same article. (At least until someone bothers to do enough reverse engineering to technically explain the difference.)
On that note, perhaps instead of full articles we can just have articles on the engines have a section therein for each game? Seems like it would be a good compromise if we have no real intention of covering individual games in depth, but I don't know how that would affect search rankings. Blzut3 (talk) 20:46, 2 June 2015 (CDT)