Editing Talk:Doom music (section) From DoomWiki.org Warning: You are not logged in. Your IP address will be recorded in this page's edit history. Anti-spam check. Do not fill this in! === Speculation about E1M1 (and others) === The speculation on this page about the inspiration for E1M1 has really grown to become quite ridiculous. Among others, we're now listing 7 bands, including some obscure Russian band and others as possible inspirations. I think the problem here is that the E1M1 is ultimately a pretty generic heavy metal guitar riff. The very fact that it sounds similar to songs by so many bands is evidence of this. With that in mind, I think it would make sense to cut a lot of these bands - if not all of them - out of the article. This goes for some of the other songs listed here as well. We're authoritatively listing songs as "inspiration" when often this just amounts to baseless speculation. The sources of some of Doom's music can be conclusively proved through the metadata comments in [http://planetromero.com/2007/06/doom-archaeology the MIDI files released by John Romero]. But for other tracks I think we should be much more skeptical. [[User:Fraggle|Fraggle]] ([[User talk:Fraggle|talk]]) 01:14, 25 May 2014 (UTC) : You definitely removed several that are 100% obvious, however. Like Sergeant D and the S.O.D., which is musically ''exactly'' identical to "Facing the Spider." There's no way it wasn't based on it. --[[User:Quasar|Quasar]] ([[User talk:Quasar|talk]]) 01:42, 25 May 2014 (UTC) :: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHuNRheP7rY Listening to it] I'm far from convinced. Many of these tracks are mostly guitar riffs and it's inevitable that some heavy metal band out there has made something that sounds similar. [[User:Fraggle|Fraggle]] ([[User talk:Fraggle|talk]]) 02:00, 25 May 2014 (UTC) : Pantera's Mouth of War riff is more or less taken verbatim as well, and we definitely know Romero and Adrian had Pantera in their library. --[[User:Quasar|Quasar]] ([[User talk:Quasar|talk]]) 01:54, 25 May 2014 (UTC) :: This sounds more convincing, and "in their library" is good reasoning I think. Maybe as a compromise, that's a good basis for deciding what gets listed here: if a Doom track sounds like a track from an album known to be used in Doom's development, it's a reasonable enough assumption. But if it's an album, or even a band, that isn't known to have been used, it's a much more tenuous suggestion. For reference these are the track names that appear in the unused MIDI metadata: <pre> AC-DC "Big Gun" [Single, or Last Action Hero soundtrack] Alice In Chains -- Dirt -- "Angry Chair" Alice In Chains -- Dirt -- "Dirt" Alice In Chains -- Dirt -- "God Smack" Alice In Chains -- Dirt -- "JunkHead" Alice In Chains -- Dirt -- "Rain When I Die" Alice In Chains -- Dirt -- "Rooster" Alice In Chains -- Dirt -- "Them Bones" Alice In Chains -- Facelift -- "Man In The Box" Alice In Chains -- Facelift -- "We Die Young" Slayer -- South Of Heaven -- "Behind The Crooked Cross" Soundgarden -- "Outshined" [From "Badmotorfinger" album] Soundgarden -- "Rusty Cage" [From "Badmotorfinger" album] Stone Temple Pilots -- "Dead and Bloated" [from "Core" album] Stone Temple Pilots -- "Sex Type Thing" [from "Core" album] </pre> This might be a useful base for decisions. [[User:Fraggle|Fraggle]] ([[User talk:Fraggle|talk]]) 02:00, 25 May 2014 (UTC) : I could live with that. It's a shame we don't have more first-hand information. --[[User:Quasar|Quasar]] ([[User talk:Quasar|talk]]) 02:15, 25 May 2014 (UTC) I can't figure out where but the table seems to be broken now, there's an empty column running down the right hand side of it. --[[User:Quasar|Quasar]] ([[User talk:Quasar|talk]]) 02:35, 25 May 2014 (UTC) : Fixed. [[User:Fraggle|Fraggle]] ([[User talk:Fraggle|talk]]) 02:37, 25 May 2014 (UTC) Just for fun I wrote [https://soulsphere.org/random/romero-cds.txt this] based on the information we've figured out here. [[User:Fraggle|Fraggle]] ([[User talk:Fraggle|talk]]) 03:00, 25 May 2014 (UTC) : Nice, thinking about making it an article? --[[User:Quasar|Quasar]] ([[User talk:Quasar|talk]]) 04:04, 25 May 2014 (UTC) :: I was just doing it for fun, but that might actually be a good idea. [[User:Fraggle|Fraggle]] ([[User talk:Fraggle|talk]]) 16:41, 25 May 2014 (UTC) 11. Did Judas Priest influence DOOM? Did SLAYER influence DOOM? The answer is yes. Take a listen to Painkiller by Judas Priest and then a listen to E1M1. You will hear a lot of similarities. If I remember correctly, one time John Romero told Bobby Prince to make something that sounds like Painkiller. E3M2 also resembles Leather Rebel, though one can argue that it does sound a heck of a lot like Soundgarden's Outshined. SLAYER influenced DOOM, it's noticeable in the fact that E3M3 greatly resembles Behind the Crooked Cross, and E3M8 resembles Silent Scream. Also E1M3 resembles Criminally Insane by Slayer. A lot of the unused MIDI data referenced SLAYER. They were originally going to include Raining Blood on E3M6 and South of Heaven for MAP09. Eventually they were changed or flat out cut due to worries of lawsuits. Though one question we all have to ask is, do E1M5, E1M7, and E1M8 all have traceable metal roots or influences? Can we find songs that bear resemblances? Bolt Thrower's World Eater resembles E1M6 as does Believer's Sanity Obscure song. {{unsigned|User:Corporal Flynn Taggart}} : I'm responding to this months late now, but better late than never. : I don't find the Judas Priest Painkiller thing to be conclusive. Thing is, E1M1 is clearly a track that sounds like different songs to different people. It's possible that it's inspired by multiple different songs, or maybe it's just a generic heavy metal riff that Bobby Prince made up. Without any evidence it's useless to speculate, and if the article is to be held to a high standard (which I think it should be) then it's best not to include any such speculation. : Slayer is certainly an option for inclusion as we know from the metadata comments that it was definitely in the collection. But a lot of these suggestions are really just rather tenuous speculation. I listened to a few and I'm not convinced. If we're to add any more entries to these lists, it should be done by careful analysis and consensus, because the one thing that's become abundantly clear in the history of this article is that people can convince themselves of all kinds of similarities in Doom's music. [[User:Fraggle|Fraggle]] ([[User talk:Fraggle|talk]]) 00:08, 14 February 2015 (UTC) E1M5 could be based in part on the beginning of AC/DC's "Are You Ready?" from The Razor's Edge, 1990. Just saying. -CJ Summary: All contributions to DoomWiki.org are considered to be released under the CC BY-SA 4.0 International (see Doom Wiki:Copyrights for details). By contributing, you agree to be bound by the Terms of Use. Your changes will be visible immediately. Please enter a summary of your changes above. Do not submit copyrighted images or text without permission! This includes text taken from in-game codices or logbooks, or from official instruction manuals, strategy guides, and other such books. 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