Editing Talk:Timeline (section) From DoomWiki.org Warning: You are not logged in. Your IP address will be recorded in this page's edit history. Anti-spam check. Do not fill this in! == Mods and Ports? == Do we want to document these on the main timeline? I feel in the case of mods in particular this is opening a can of worms. Everybody who releases a .wad is going to want to add theirs here, without some kind of almost impossible to reach definition of notability. --[[User:Quasar|Quasar]] 17:10, 13 March 2014 (UTC) : I agree. Ideally we could include releases of ''indisputable'' importance both inside and outside the community (e.g. ZDoom wouldn't be included, but UAC Labs would). Realistically, however, the potential flamewars and article clutter aren't worth the trouble. [[User:Ryan W|Ryan W]] 17:34, 13 March 2014 (UTC) :: Whereas if we were to make a <nowiki>[[Timeline of source ports]]</nowiki> article for example, or <nowiki>[[Timeline of megawads]]</nowiki>, such things would be on-topic and there would be more room/tolerance for things of questionable notability. I DO feel like the info added is valuable; just not certain it should stay here. --[[User:Quasar|Quasar]] 17:38, 13 March 2014 (UTC) :"''I feel in the case of mods in particular this is opening a can of worms.''" — This can of worm has been opened [https://doomwiki.org/w/index.php?title=Timeline&diff=77722&oldid=77031 way back then]. :"''ZDoom wouldn't be included, but UAC Labs would''" — Are you serious? The release date of the [[Harris levels]] has no relevance at all. I'd even say that they exist at all isn't really important. Saying they are is glorifying a murderous madman who really doesn't deserve the praise. And does anyone outside the community even remembers about that? It's really nothing more than a footnote; the real event was the Columbine shooting. Anyway, I object to the notion that releases should be of importance outside the community -- this wiki is for, by, and about the community. If you remove stuff that doesn't really matter outside the community, then what you are left with is the content of [[wikipedia:Doom (video game)|Doom]]. To use your example, the existence of ZDoom is certainly a lot more important to the community than that of UAC labs. Look at how many ports are derived from it (including Odamex which was used for the 2013 QuakeCon Doom Challenge) or have borrowed code from it. Look at how many mods have been made for it or its derivatives. Look at {{dwforumsp|1243572|Quasar's favorite kind of threads}} and count how many answers list at least one port in the extended ZDoom family. Now compare that to how many times a Harris level is mentioned in the "list your favorite wads" threads. Or compare the number of results for [https://www.google.com/search?q=%22UAC+Labs%22 this search] and [https://www.google.com/search?q=ZDoom that one]. :You want ports of indisputable importance? Any of those used [[comparison of source ports|here]] or their direct ancestors. :"''Timeline of megawads''" — important mods are not necessarily megawads. The aforementioned can-opener is a single level. --[[User:Gez|Gez]] 18:48, 13 March 2014 (UTC) :: It seems like you have some bones to pick with the existing content whereas my concerns are with the recently added large amount of items. I can't gauge from this whether you like my own idea or not, and whether or not you want the recently added content to stay. I'd request that you state that opinion more clearly. As for the problems you pointed out, I agree with some of them, like the Harris levels' release timing not being of importance; I wouldn't have listed those myself. As for ZDoom being non-notable I would also be forced to disagree with Ryan, it's probably one of the few ports that is widely recognized outside the community. But this response is reinforcing my point if anything. All I've perceived is that up til now this article was mostly about two things: the fundamental events of the Doom "universe," like game releases or awards or the actions of its creators, and the mainstream world at large's reactions to those events. It was not really community-oriented. We can decide to either retain that nature and move these edits somewhere else, or choose to repurpose this article. --[[User:Quasar|Quasar]] 19:20, 13 March 2014 (UTC) ::: That makes total sense to me. [[User:Ryan W|Ryan W]] 19:25, 13 March 2014 (UTC) ::::I don't have bones to pick, I was merely trying to be concise while still listing many points, which I suppose made me sound kinda angry. Mostly, I was pointing out the precedent of Arcadia Demade and disagreeing with Ryan's example. I have no problems with the page's current content, neither before nor after the recent additions. --[[User:Gez|Gez]] 19:43, 13 March 2014 (UTC) ::::: I think we will disagree on many examples :> but that just reinforces Quasar's point that any but the bluntest criterion will have huge gray areas. Just because it's an old issue doesn't mean we should ignore it; maybe no one noticed the pattern until now. I for one would like to avoid years of slow-motion edit warring over the first Zandronum release. [[User:Ryan W|Ryan W]] 20:31, 13 March 2014 (UTC) : So we're a couple months down the road and 6 revisions to this article are still unapproved without any further discussion taking place. I don't feel this is being handled well and will probably take unilateral action later if nobody has any more input to give. --[[User:Quasar|Quasar]] ([[User talk:Quasar|talk]]) 21:00, 9 May 2014 (UTC) ::What action are you planning to take? It might be a good idea to go for a vote. --[[User:Gez|Gez]] ([[User talk:Gez|talk]]) 23:11, 9 May 2014 (UTC) ::: Personally, I'd really prefer to keep the main timeline strictly as a view of "canon" events - game releases, major sites going on or offline, actions of the games' creators/companies, etc., and create other timeline articles like suggested earlier for community-centric events like port and mod releases. --[[User:Quasar|Quasar]] ([[User talk:Quasar|talk]]) 03:42, 10 May 2014 (UTC) Summary: All contributions to DoomWiki.org are considered to be released under the CC BY-SA 4.0 International (see Doom Wiki:Copyrights for details). By contributing, you agree to be bound by the Terms of Use. Your changes will be visible immediately. Please enter a summary of your changes above. Do not submit copyrighted images or text without permission! This includes text taken from in-game codices or logbooks, or from official instruction manuals, strategy guides, and other such books. 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