From DoomWiki.org Warning: You are not logged in. Your IP address will be recorded in this page's edit history. Anti-spam check. Do not fill this in! ==2016-08-02== The DMMPST beta (testers still invited) can now output Things tables for vanilla multiplayer and Boom-compatible cooperative / deathmatch. A sample of the first is Doom [[User:Xymph/DMMPST/E1M1_D_things|E1M1]] ([[E1M1: Hangar (Doom)#Things|comparison]]), clearly showing the extra weapons, ammo and berserk pack in MP. A brief search of the [[idgames archive]] turned up Boom-compatible map [https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/levels/doom2/Ports/0-9/102 102.WAD] with [[User:Xymph/DMMPST/102WAD_things|these things]]. In coop there are two extra arch-viles and an extra cyberdemon, deathmatch has additional weapons & ammo and an extra megasphere. I manually verified the cyberdemons, chaingun and megaspheres in SLADE3, so the tables are probably correct (but more testing is welcome). ===Ordering=== I have yet to locate a Heretic PWAD page in the wiki (anyone?). Pages for stock Heretic maps order items per these classes: Monsters, Weapons, Ammo, Items/Powerups, Keys. The Doom [[:Template:Things|Things]] template instead uses: Monsters, Items/Powerups, Weapons, Ammo, Keys. The Heretic order seems more logical to me, as monsters are fought with weapons, and keys are a kind of item too. Therefore DMMPST uses that same class order for the above E1M1 tables. The [[Backpack]] is categorized a powerup in Doom tables, while the [[Bag of Holding]] is considered a collection of ammo in Heretic tables. I have a mild preference for the latter approach. Should a class header be included even if it contains no items, e.g. a level without keys such as Doom II [[MAP07: Dead Simple (Doom_II)#Things|MAP07]]? Perhaps this shows more clearly that the class was not accidentally forgotten but really contains no items, but I'm not set on it. Doom tables sort monsters roughly by cast sequence / increasing hit points, Heretic by alphabetical name. A comparison of both approaches: {{col-begin}} {{col-break}} {| {{prettytable}} |- !style="border-right:solid 2px black;"|Doom Monsters!!Monsters by hit points!!Hit points |- |style="border-right:solid 2px black;"| Arachnotron || Zombieman || 20 |- |style="border-right:solid 2px black;"| Arch-vile || Shotgun guy || 30 |- |style="border-right:solid 2px black;"| Baron of Hell || Heavy weapon dude || 70 |- |style="border-right:solid 2px black;"| Cacodemon || Imp || 60 |- |style="border-right:solid 2px black;"| Commander Keen || Lost soul || 100 |- |style="border-right:solid 2px black;"| Cyberdemon || Demon || 150 |- |style="border-right:solid 2px black;"| Demon || Spectre || 150 |- |style="border-right:solid 2px black;"| Final boss || Revenant || 300 |- |style="border-right:solid 2px black;"| Heavy weapon dude || Cacodemon || 400 |- |style="border-right:solid 2px black;"| Hell knight || Pain elemental || 400 |- |style="border-right:solid 2px black;"| Imp || Hell knight || 500 |- |style="border-right:solid 2px black;"| Lost soul || Baron of Hell || 1000 |- |style="border-right:solid 2px black;"| Mancubus || Arachnotron || 500 |- |style="border-right:solid 2px black;"| Pain elemental || Mancubus || 600 |- |style="border-right:solid 2px black;"| Revenant || Arch-vile || 700 |- |style="border-right:solid 2px black;"| Shotgun guy || Spiderdemon || 3000 |- |style="border-right:solid 2px black;"| Spectre || Cyberdemon || 4000 |- |style="border-right:solid 2px black;"| Spiderdemon || Wolfenstein SS || 50 |- |style="border-right:solid 2px black;"| Wolfenstein SS || Commander Keen || 100 |- |style="border-right:solid 2px black;"| Zombieman || Final boss || 250 |- |} {{col-break}} {| {{prettytable}} |- !style="border-right:solid 2px black;"|Heretic Monsters!!Monsters by hit points!!Hit points |- |style="border-right:solid 2px black;"| D'Sparil || Gargoyle || 50 |- |style="border-right:solid 2px black;"| Disciple || Fire gargoyle || 80 |- |style="border-right:solid 2px black;"| Fire gargoyle || Golem || 80 |- |style="border-right:solid 2px black;"| Gargoyle || Golem ghost || 80 |- |style="border-right:solid 2px black;"| Golem ghost || Nitrogolem || 100 |- |style="border-right:solid 2px black;"| Golem || Nitrogolem ghost || 100 |- |style="border-right:solid 2px black;"| Iron lich || Sabreclaw || 150 |- |style="border-right:solid 2px black;"| Maulotaur || Disciple || 180 |- |style="border-right:solid 2px black;"| Nitrogolem ghost || Undead Warrior || 200 |- |style="border-right:solid 2px black;"| Nitrogolem || Undead Warrior ghost || 200 |- |style="border-right:solid 2px black;"| Ophidian || Weredragon || 220 |- |style="border-right:solid 2px black;"| Sabreclaw || Ophidian || 280 |- |style="border-right:solid 2px black;"| Undead Warrior ghost || Iron lich || 700 |- |style="border-right:solid 2px black;"| Undead Warrior || Maulotaur || 3000 |- |style="border-right:solid 2px black;"| Weredragon || D'Sparil || 5500 |- |} {{col-end}} Here I like the Doom order more. Shall we adopt this for Heretic too? For weapons and ammo, the Doom & Heretic ordering by slot is fine, but hasn't been applied consistently in the past. See e.g. the aforementioned MAP07 where the super shotgun is last, and ammo is seemingly randomized. And for example in Plutonia [[MAP28: The Sewers (The Plutonia Experiment)|MAP28]], there's no apparent method to the ordering madness in almost all classes – with DMMPST that looks [[User:Xymph/DMMPST/MAP28_P_things|like this]]. For items/powerups, the order in the Doom template is a bit odd: armors at increasing percentages (1%, 100%, 200%), armor/health 200% (megasphere), health decreasing (100%, 25%, 10%, 1%), berserk (100% health but predominantly a powerup), backpack, and then the remaining powerups in alphabetical order. More logical to me would be to order health by increasing percentage too, followed by the megasphere, like this: {| {{prettytable}} |- ||Armor bonus |- ||Armor |- ||Megaarmor |- ||Health bonus |- ||Stimpack |- ||Medikit |- ||Supercharge |- ||Megasphere |- ||Backpack |- ||Berserk |- ||Computer area map |- ||Invulnerability |- ||Light amplification visor |- ||Partial invisibility |- ||Radiation shielding suit |- |} This is the order I used in DMMPST so far, but moving backpack to the ammo class (as already proposed above) would put the megasphere adjacent to the alphabetical powerup list, which makes more sense to me in this regard as well. Summary: All contributions to DoomWiki.org are considered to be released under the CC BY-SA 4.0 International (see Doom Wiki:Copyrights for details). By contributing, you agree to be bound by the Terms of Use. Your changes will be visible immediately. Please enter a summary of your changes above. 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