From DoomWiki.org

(rambling response to Quasar)
(Telefrag)
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:::: If I were a newbie who had only DMed and was reading up on the classic maps, I might even think the dead player was gibbed by a rocket and flew in from the left after the teleportation.  DM moves pretty fast after all.  (No, there aren't multiplayer weapons on E2M1 but you get the idea.)    [[User:Ryan W|Ryan W]] 19:53, 13 March 2014 (UTC)
 
:::: If I were a newbie who had only DMed and was reading up on the classic maps, I might even think the dead player was gibbed by a rocket and flew in from the left after the teleportation.  DM moves pretty fast after all.  (No, there aren't multiplayer weapons on E2M1 but you get the idea.)    [[User:Ryan W|Ryan W]] 19:53, 13 March 2014 (UTC)
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:::::Hmm. Now I'm not that sceptical about the authenticity of the picture in question. I had done some inquiries after it was uploaded. The telefrag logic in the code checks if the colliding entities' boundaries overlap, but they should not necessarily occupy the exact same spot. If so, then we have a nonzero vector along which the damage will be inflicted (and momentum add is directed, according to P_DamageMobj). I'm not sure if the engine will permit the actual movement (it may consider the entities being stuck in each other at this moment), so probably my assumption is wrong.
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:::::But there is one more thing. Just at the time of the debacle I was playing Memento Mori 2, and something uncannily similar happened to me on [[MAP16: The Nephilim (Memento Mori II)|MAP16]]. I took the teleporter after the blue door and arrived on top of the column at (480, 160), only to telefrag a hapless imp (who happened to teleport up there before me). Astoundingly, his remains were flung quite a distance away, clear off the pedestal. I was playing under Prboom+, and complevel was set to 9, I think.
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:::::So I am kind of at loss now, but I agree that the screenshot in question doesn't exactly portraits the subject, too much leeway and ambiguity. [[User:Unmaker|Unmaker]] 20:55, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

Revision as of 14:55, 13 March 2014

Archived discussions: 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012


Request for a publication

Hello, Ryan. Doom II is quality stuff, so I have to ask a Reviewer to get my change published. With this as your guide, could you give your judgement about the updated Compet-N table in the article? I added a separate table to my subpage; the content there is identical to the one in Doom II but the listing order is from the Compet-N site. If you make comparisons between the source site and the table, it would happen more conveniently via the subpage.

I've checked the data once myself and tested that the links work. There were no problems with those, but there's one questionable thing: according to the point policy for game movies (MAP01 - MAP30/32, "ALL"), some of the categories have two or three current records instead of one (they give a varying amount of points). However, I thought to only add the fastest records of the categories; that is the way things have been done in the wiki so far, and I'm pretty sure that the majority of readers are more interested in seeing fast playthroughs than knowing what kind of awards the speedrunners have had. Still, it's just an opinion among others.

Feel free to comment on your decision. --Jartapran 20:27, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

It's been years since I looked at the records, but I think all your ideas are workable.  Unfortunately, I can't help directly, because I'm not a Reviewer (see Special:Listusers).    Ryan W 00:02, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
AFAIK, Administrators are Reviewers by default. How else could you have done that to Unmaker's edit? :) Now, I cannot tell for sure, but I guess revisions turn into quality ones when the review grades (or some of them) reach a higher level in comparison with the Editor grades (Sighted/Basic/Moderate/Acceptable/Good/Concise). For instance, the last quality revision in Doom II was by Quasar with the grades Well sourced, High and Concise. [1]
If you're still unable to help, fine. Thanks anyway. --Jartapran 04:33, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
AFAIK, Administrators are Reviewers by default. -- not by default, I had to whine about it to get it to change so that admins be granted reviewer rights. --Gez 14:12, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
You are right; I totally forgot about that thread.  Apologies.  I'll take a look when I get home.    Ryan W 14:17, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Eidolon

If you're on board with what appears to be a tiny consensus in favor of keeping the Eidolon article, I'd like to make some enhancements to it to de-emphasize the protracted description of Hexen II battle tactics, which are fairly off-topic here, in favor of more descriptive prose on his appearance, behaviors, place amongst the Serpent Riders, actions on the world of Thyrion, etc. Some kind of pic would be a nice touch too, IMO. --Quasar 20:16, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

Hi Quasar.  If we must discuss him, that's the way to do it.  Frankly our standards for inclusion still seem nebulous to me.  In a thread like that, however, with low turnout and at least one "disinterested" keep post, and not a copyvio or anything, we've generally kept the article assuming potential for improvement.  So feel free to close if you want.    Ryan W 02:00, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Telefrag

I noticed you added the telefrag screenshot back to the article. Unmaker suggested that the picture does not depict a telefrag, and I concurred after making a test (see the screenshot below). I expected Axdoomer to reply to the matter, but he never did. Thus, the matter was left aside, and the validity of the screenshot has remained uncertain since. Now that you put it back to the page, I think it should be settled.

TelefragOrNot.png

The zombieman§ stands behind an invisible wall in the modified E2M1 (so he was stationary when the screenshot was taken). When I surprised the monster by teleporting behind it, he didn't become telefragged. And considering that the gibbed player stood further away from the teleporter pad than in my picture, and telefragging doesn't include momentum, I agree that the phenomenon in the picture isn't a telefrag, but something that Axdoomer inadvertently thought to be one. I believe that what actually happened in the picture was what Unmaker said: the gibbed player flew through the teleporter and still had momentum left when he arrived to its destination.

§ I also tested with Our hero, and had the same results as with the zombieman. --Jartapran 19:15, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

(edit conflict x 2) That's excellent reasoning, and this may be one of those topics (few) which really needs a video rather than a single frame to be demonstrated.  Possibly I have been grasping at straws to avoid nominating images for deletion, because people find that unpleasant.  :7     Ryan W 19:30, 13 March 2014 (UTC)
I have to agree. --Quasar 19:29, 13 March 2014 (UTC)
Hi Quasar.  I saw your first reply, and it is probably correct but IMO not relevant.  :>   Ideally an article should be self-contained, which means the first screen shot should be a direct, immediate depiction without requiring the reader to visualize unseen events or ponder technical details.    Ryan W 19:38, 13 March 2014 (UTC)
I didn't read Jartapran's post fully enough to realize how well he'd tested it, and was trying to rationalize how it might still be a telefrag, so I was most likely wrong :) It remains vaguely possible that the shot is a telefrag in a source port that has wider players for some reason, but, we wouldn't want to use that as our example even if it were the case. --Quasar 19:43, 13 March 2014 (UTC)
If I were a newbie who had only DMed and was reading up on the classic maps, I might even think the dead player was gibbed by a rocket and flew in from the left after the teleportation.  DM moves pretty fast after all.  (No, there aren't multiplayer weapons on E2M1 but you get the idea.)    Ryan W 19:53, 13 March 2014 (UTC)
Hmm. Now I'm not that sceptical about the authenticity of the picture in question. I had done some inquiries after it was uploaded. The telefrag logic in the code checks if the colliding entities' boundaries overlap, but they should not necessarily occupy the exact same spot. If so, then we have a nonzero vector along which the damage will be inflicted (and momentum add is directed, according to P_DamageMobj). I'm not sure if the engine will permit the actual movement (it may consider the entities being stuck in each other at this moment), so probably my assumption is wrong.
But there is one more thing. Just at the time of the debacle I was playing Memento Mori 2, and something uncannily similar happened to me on MAP16. I took the teleporter after the blue door and arrived on top of the column at (480, 160), only to telefrag a hapless imp (who happened to teleport up there before me). Astoundingly, his remains were flung quite a distance away, clear off the pedestal. I was playing under Prboom+, and complevel was set to 9, I think.
So I am kind of at loss now, but I agree that the screenshot in question doesn't exactly portraits the subject, too much leeway and ambiguity. Unmaker 20:55, 13 March 2014 (UTC)