Archived discussions

2016 | 2017-2018

MAYhem mayhem

I had no idea that map was renamed. I used to take the names from the MAPINFO lump and I've got a copy of "mayhem2048.wad" where it's still called Sheltered Outpost. It's great when beta releases aren't marked as such. --Eris Falling (talk) 08:17, 6 August 2019 (CDT)

And I wasn't aware that the overview page had been created from a (unidentified) beta. Thanks for the clarification. --Xymph (talk) 10:28, 6 August 2019 (CDT)

gamers.org URLs

Sorry about that.  This is another case where the age of my environment impedes me from seeing every situational detail (like the security certificates).  Sometimes a browser cruises right past warning dialogs.  :>

That said, I just noticed you *did* clarify the situation for users like me: "You can also use a Browser and use HTTP (Hyper Text Transfer Protocol), which is what is used by the links below." [1]  Clearly not the same as the /idstuff links I replaced.  So I'll remember that for future cases where Doomworld or 3ddownloads is missing items (which again I assume are ultimately the Doomworld staff's purview).  Thanks for double-checking.    Ryan W (living fossil) 12:06, 31 January 2020 (CST)

Source modification

Hi Xymph, I just saw your edit on source modification - External links: sort first in its own cat)

Looking at the change and reading your message, i'd need some additional clarity. What has to be done extra?

To put in advance: I did see that its quite redundant to have the article source modification when the header already says that the main article is in fact, source modification. But that's just as far as i got with it. Thanks in advance. -- Redneckerz (talk) 18:41, 27 April 2020 (CET)

Nothing more has to be done: it is convention to sort the main article (correctly referenced via {{catmore}}) for a category first in that category. My edit accomplished that, that's all.

I don't see anything particularly redundant, so not sure what you're referring to above. --Xymph (talk) 12:23, 27 April 2020 (CDT)

Oh. Well, you see, the attached text made it sound like an task that had to be done (Sort first in its own cat) so that got me confused. Good to hear it was a nothingburger, then! Thanks Xymph for clarification. -- Redneckerz (talk) 21:08, 27 April 2020 (CET)

That happened elsewhere today too, but edit summaries normally describe what the edit accomplishes, not what another editor should do. ;-) For such discussions there are talk pages. --Xymph (talk) 14:16, 27 April 2020 (CDT)

Somewhere i knew and it just did not register haha ;) Nevertheless thank you for all your hard work done here and its beeing a great learning school for me. -- Redneckerz (talk) 21:27, 27 April 2020 (CET)

Interwiki table

Hi Xymph.  This doesn't impact your edits, which look good, but see here and here.  It isn't case sensitive.  The interwiki extension simply does not backfill links when a prefix is added, like Whatlinkshere or Linksearch would, necessitating an edit to each page.  (And since it's more difficult to identify affected pages, Quasar was probably right to be irritated when I removed those entries.)  HTH.  Ryan W (living fossil) 07:23, 5 May 2020 (CDT)

Oh, ok. Thanks for the clarification. --Xymph (talk) 07:32, 5 May 2020 (CDT)

Crazy idea #2

I might could code a selector and cookie storage for the table color scheme you're experimenting with so that users could choose one that looks good to them. This is particularly sensible for accessibility reasons (ie, various forms of colorblindness may make a good looking default in our opinion hard to parse for other people). --Quasar (talk) 07:08, 12 July 2020 (CDT)

I realized that accessibility/colorblindness would make finding a good compromise scheme harder, so yeah, crazy idea but it could be helpful. Let me know how it will work so I can incorporate it in the table generation script. --Xymph (talk) 09:13, 12 July 2020 (CDT)

Hope this is useful

Regarding your email questions: User:Quasar/Sandbox/Doom 64 info --Quasar (talk) 12:12, 13 July 2020 (CDT)

Thanks, this is more complete but I got the parts relevant for DMMPST from Edward850 already. --Xymph (talk) 12:21, 13 July 2020 (CDT)

Cool. --Quasar (talk) 12:40, 13 July 2020 (CDT)

Reviewing changes

Hello there. I wanted to know if you have the ability to review other users' contributions? Because it seems other users with this ability are currently busy. I've been making some contributions, but they haven't been reviewed in quite a while already. This is the reason why I'm asking. I apologize if it's an inconvenience. Hfc2x (talk) 13:20, 9 November 2020 (CST)

I review/approve a lot of edits, but only if I'm familiar enough with the subject matter (or they're trivial enough that this doesn't matter). For your DE edits, that does not apply. Quasar is busy but may get around to them at some point. --Xymph (talk) 13:38, 9 November 2020 (CST)

Oh, that's okay. Thanks for your reply! Hfc2x (talk) 15:08, 9 November 2020 (CST)

Nomenclature and spacing

Hey Xymph. I've noticed that you cleaned up a lot of incorrect bits of capitalisation (like Hell knight) and spacing (BFG9000) in most of my edits. My bad. Is there a page where I can see all of the official spellings so I don't create any more avoidable work for you and other curators? Thanks. Jack Kellar (talk) 13:32, 9 November 2020 (CST)

Why, the policies and guidelines, of course. ;) And searching for the canonical articles also helps. Although it's not required to use canonical wording all the time, minor variations are usually captured via redirects. --Xymph (talk) 13:46, 9 November 2020 (CST)

DSDA link migration (side note)

This seems harsh TBH.  I hope no one really expected you to complete such a large task to match another site's roadmap, which wasn't even announced in advance.  (Andy's departure, at least, seemed to surprise people.)  I too held out hope for more development: they have some very skilled contributors, and my impression from Wikipedia's API discussions was that if any validated output has reached the public, the most difficult milestone is passed, and adding more columns and rows is simpler.

(deep breath)  In any event, it's great to hear that such a large piece of this implementation is done.  I really do want to follow up some loose ends while the new code is still somewhere near your front burner... but I keep finding offline obligations under every rock this year.  :>  Ryan W (living fossil) 10:57, 4 December 2020 (CST)

Well, I said that about myself and it didn't feel harsh to me. :-) Besides the aforementioned reasons, I was also surprised by the shutdown of Andy's site. Older Compet-n and DSDA sites are still online so it was unexpected to have an intermediate site drop out of the middle of the timeline. But in my projects I always try to think at least one step ahead, so if I had really thought about it, I would have concluded the template migration to be a good idea sooner, and we'd have avoided the period of dead/archived links altogether. And there's still plenty left to do, e.g. collection zips have not (yet?) been made available on the new DSDA.

Anyway, thanks for your kind support, as always. If you don't mind, I'm not holding my breath for loose ends though. ;-) --Xymph (talk) 14:18, 4 December 2020 (CST)

Haha, fair enough.  I am pretty sure the collection zips are still there, but with new IDs and without landing pages, so they look like single runs until inflated.  I am also doubtful there's a reason to prefer a landing page link to a (working) file deeplink, unless for some reason one cited the transactional fact of Andy posting the file.  But I plan to examine those also, if I'm optimistic.  :>  Thanks,  Ryan W (living fossil) 22:20, 4 December 2020 (CST)

PSX's MAP14 and MAP10 bugs section removal

Hi! vanilla doesn't distinguish DM/coop, the monsters are there for coop

However, PSX Doom is unique in this. Multiplayer flag is only used to spawn anything on DM only. Coop things spawn the same as they do in Single. --MtErebus (talk) 07:00, 1 February 2021 (CST)

Oh, I wasn't aware of that, shoulda asked first. But it is also not mentioned on the Sony PlayStation page, so that would be a useful info bit there. --Xymph (talk) 07:06, 1 February 2021 (CST)

It may in fact be a quirk inherited from the Jaguar version; I literally just noticed an oddity surrounding that in Calico yesterday. --Quasar (talk) 00:25, 2 February 2021 (CST)

Mapping tables

I was wondering, what is the mapping table concern regarding The Alfonzone? A quick look through the DECORATE file suggests that, apart from a whole host of custom props as is common to see in many megawads, the only things that I could see affecting the gameplay are two items. The first is called TalismanOfHealth (doomednum 20001) and grants the player a regeneration effect lasting for about 15 seconds, and colours the screen with a very light shade of orange. I have no idea where this is used in the maps as I don't recall ever seeing it, but the other item of interest is even more mundane: it is called MysteriousArtefact (doomednum 20002) and has no effect by itself, however the pickup message is "You have the Mysterious Artefact! Now get the hell out!" which would suggest it is used by one of the map's scripts for one purpose or another. There are otherwise no custom enemies, no custom weapons, not even any other type of custom inventory as far as I can see besides this, and given that both of those items appear to be used very sparingly (if at all), I don't think there should be any mapping table issues preventing the map articles from being automatically generated, provided there isn't something else I'm not aware of.

Another mod I would like to discuss is NeoDoom. This mod is notorious for its very poorly balanced custom enemies in what is otherwise fairly good level design, but a lesser known fact which the wiki does reference is that it's supposed to have different custom enemies (or none at all) depending on which source port it is played on. Some of the enemies use DeHackEd, others use DECORATE, and I have no idea exactly what custom enemies if any are supposed to show up on NeoDoom, but this makes it probably one of the more complicated megawads to cover in doom modding history, so I am unsure on what approach to take here. One thing I've thought of is simply using vanilla resources and treating all the custom stuff as superfluous additions, but I'm not sure if that's the best course of action. The megawad is in fact playable and balanced when played only using vanilla actors though, and there is even a zdoom-compatible version called NeoDoom: Vaccinated Edition which has been hosted on zandronum with all the custom stuff removed to reinforce that fact. How do you think this should be approached?

Lastly, is there any mod you would want me to focus on when it comes to creating mapping tables? I see Gauss has been making some, was wondering if you had any specific requests regarding what you would like to see done. Regards! --Dynamo128 (talk) 16:40, 18 February 2021 (CST)

Re. Alfonzone, the general concern was simply that it has a lengthy Decorate and it's not an effective use of my time to analyze it myself. The wiki is a collaborative effort and if we look at the big picture what we can most effectively contribute together, given everyone's time constraints, then it's map series by me based on overview articles by others. Also, I left the Doom community in the late '90s and returned in 2016, so am unfamiliar with many mods, their development history and reception. And I also don't follow much of the DW forums. So overviews are better suited to those who are (more) familiar with the pertaining mods, IMHO.

Specifically, back when I parked this one, I wasn't very familiar with Decorate to begin with and DMMPST didn't support UDMF yet either. The overview article doesn't describe relevant custom things yet, and I see references to episodes (also in .txt and MAPINFO), which aren't in the map list either (nor is the soundtrack listing). So if that article would be expanded with all the relevant info, then I can start on the map skeletons.

Re. Neodoom, I have no idea (see above), and since you're not familiar with it either, my simple suggestion is: leave it to someone who is. Even if that takes months/years; it's not like there's nothing else left to do around here. :)

So thanks for requesting suggestions, I'd say the first group of my backlog has precedence, as for those map articles already exist but have no or (possibly) inaccurate thing tables. After verifying the correctness of Valiant's and DsDoom 3's mapping files, I don't have any major preference. Pick the ones you're interested in. When that group has been whittled down, there's always the second one... thanks for your help! --Xymph (talk) 12:26, 20 February 2021 (CST)

Very well. Just to make sure though, props are in fact supposed to be ignored for such mapping tables, correct? Regardless of whether they are DECORATE, DeHackEd or mere sprite replacements. It's not just The Alfonzone that has a lot of them but also other mods and maps which have large DECORATE files with nothing in them except custom props. --Dynamo128 (talk) 09:00, 21 February 2021 (CST)

Well, so much the easier then. Inanimate obstacles/decorations with no playable value can indeed be ignored. Sprite/name replacements for existing things are however relevant, e.g. keys with a different color. When in doubt, raise the issue on the pertaining WAD's talk page, and we'll work it out. I can do DMMPST trial runs to find which map(s) contain a given thing. --Xymph (talk) 10:21, 21 February 2021 (CST)

Linking

Hey Xymph, on the Egyptian map I only linked the DBP part to Doomer Boards Projects because at this moment there is no page specifically for DBP23: Evil Egypt. I don't understand your edit. Do we have a different linking policy here on Doomwiki? Because at the Wikipedia that kind of vague/unclear linking is discouraged and more precise linking is advised.--Tetzlaff (talk) 13:42, 9 April 2021 (CDT)

English Wikipedia is more pedantic about a lot of things than other wikis, including non-English Wikipedias. Individual articles for each DBP project are not foreseen (and certainly not their individual maps), and styling DBP23 as you did sorta obscured the link part, that's why I changed it to include the whole project name. But I am not aware of a specific linking policy here that covers this. --Xymph (talk) 14:57, 9 April 2021 (CDT)

Okay, thanks for your answer. I think individual articles for the DBPs should be done some time, since they are high quality mini episodes. If that is done, we can redo the links.--Tetzlaff (talk) 22:55, 9 April 2021 (CDT)

I am not familiar with how long-running series like DBP, ASS, JoM and the like are regarded, but feel that for the wiki, a lot of other WADs should have priority: Cacoward winners and runners-up, major community releases like DMP and other notable WADs, and numerous existing articles with incomplete coverage. --Xymph (talk) 05:47, 10 April 2021 (CDT)