File talk:DoomGraph.png



In the past, we have argued that all original *text* must be contributed under the GFDL or not at all (see for example here).  Does that apply to images also?    Ryan W 19:11, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

If images are included then every screenshot, logo, map view would have to be deleted. It is impractical. Also Doom Wiki:Copyrights says that images can be fine and stuff, I did upload my own image. 16:59, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
Last post is me BTW GhostlyDeath 17:02, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
The key word above is "original", which is not the case for these three examples.  A screen shot from a particular game is a one-of-a-kind artistic work, so we have to use it, or else have no illustration at all.  Conversely, anyone could create a chart very similar to this one (the facts themselves are "free"), release it into the public domain, and then argue that it is superior because it reduces our dependence on fair use material.  The policy about text is in the terms of use and therefore non-negotiable, so I think it makes sense to ask if it extends to images when a non-copyrighted alternative is available.
I am aware that image licensing issues are often ignored on Wikia's pop culture sites.  I merely wondered what people's opinions were (obviously you have a strong opinion because you made the image).    Ryan W 22:07, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
IMO it's unacceptable. If GhostlyDeath isn't prepared to follow the normal licensing rules that we apply to content on this website, the image should be removed. Fraggle 12:58, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
But the image policy (here Doom_Wiki:Policies_and_guidelines#Images) states "You may only upload files you have created yourself.", it's not like I'm uploading someone elses chart with or without permission. I guess after realizing this rule, noone else would have been able to upload such a file here. Also, I'm allowing anyone to transfer the image to other parties and such as long as they retain the copyrights on the bottom of the chart (which is what "fair use" means to me anyway). GhostlyDeath 00:00, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
You're avoiding the main point, which is that you're not willing to release the image under the license that we use for every other piece of original work here on the wiki. You also seem to be slightly confused about the purpose of fair use for images on the wiki.
"Fair use" in this context involves using an image for which some or all of the copyright has not been granted by the original authors. Examples include Doom screenshots; the Doom graphics are owned by Id, so a Doom screenshot has some ambiguity in its legal status. But (American) copyright law allows us to claim that using screenshots is "fair use", as we are simply using them to illustrate articles about the game. It gives some foundation for legally using the images, even though technically they are copyrighted.
Crucially, fair use is a compromise. It's not ideal. Ideally, all material on the wiki should be under the GFDL (as all the text should be). Using the fair use provisions of American copyright law is a reasonable compromise to take into account the fact that it's difficult to illustrate a wiki about a game without using screenshots of it.
That said, we should strive to have as much of the wiki free as possible. There's no reason for you to be applying extra restrictions to this image except for petty egotistical ones. Furthermore, it's perfectly possible for us to create a free version of your image. There's no pressing demand for us to accept your restrictions.
I'm nominating this image for deletion for these reasons. Fraggle 12:20, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion[edit]

Author refuses to release the image under the normal licensing rules that we apply to content uploaded to the wiki. Doomworld has a similar, albeit older, chart here. I suggest talking with Quasar to get the rights to use and extend that image, as I'm pretty sure he's the author.

Delete. Fraggle 12:20, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
The explanation above the nom regarding why content should be GFDL wherever it can and fair use if that is strictly necessary is a good one. Perhaps the guidelines should be adjusted to make this position clearer. I have to concur that original work must be compatible with the rest of the wiki license, so Delete. -- Jdowland 12:43, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
The copyright line on the bottom of this image is constructed poorly, and there's no reason to place any restrictions on the image - it's just a chart! Also, this seems to be a trend of ghostlydeath putting up things either unnecessarily or incorrectly in hopes of boosting ego. Delete. -- 15:28, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
Delete. --Exp(x) 17:11, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
Delete. --Russell 22:53, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
"Author refuses to release the image under the normal licensing rules that we apply to content uploaded to the wiki. Doomworld has a similar, albeit older, chart here. I suggest talking with Quasar to get the rights to use and extend that image, as I'm pretty sure he's the author. " Quasar does not own this chart nor did he make this, if everyone is getting all bitchy over this then delete it, end this lobbying against information i've presented. GhostlyDeath 23:10, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
Firstly, I'm not lobbying against the presentation of any information. I'm arguing against the use of a diagram that you refuse to license under the normal licensing terms that every other contributor to the wiki has accepted without any trouble. I have no idea why you are so protective about this particular image, especially considering it really isn't that important. However, whatever reason it may be is irrelevant; if you do not license it properly, we cannot use it.
I mentioned Quasar in reference to this image which can be used as an alternative to yours. Quasar has confirmed (on IRC) that he is the author of it.
I would ask you to leave the image as it stands, to allow the vote for deletion process to run properly. Please see Doom_Wiki:Policies_and_guidelines#Deletion. This is a community-run website; it is not for you to decide to remove the image on a whim simply because you uploaded it. Fraggle 23:54, 16 January 2009 (UTC)