Talk:Cyberdemon

HE HE in DOOM RPG you can take out the cyber with an axe. Preety funny that you can really. 66.203.20.63 17:19, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

BFG effectiveness

killing it in two hits is not possible in vanilla  — The data table here says it is.  So which one is correct?    Ryan W 23:49, September 14, 2009 (UTC)

After a couple of vanilla test rounds I found out I was wrong and Desulated right. It is indeed possible to kill a cyberdemon with two BFG shots, and it's even pretty common if you actually shoot at it up close. I re-added the section to the article, with some rewording. I guess sometimes I trust my memory way too much. :-P -- Janizdreg 01:53, September 15, 2009 (UTC)

Technical info that could be included here

The cyberdemon is given a higher probability of performing his attack than other monsters   Yes indeed: [1]     Ryan W 23:09, June 10, 2010 (UTC)

Damage calculation

The calculation for the damage here is not correct. While it says that it takes a maximum of 2 rockets to kill a player with 200% of health and megaarmor, he actually could survive 3 shots in the game.

I have made some pratical tests, and at 200/200 of Health and Armor, I got a minumu of 64/64 and a maximum of 134/134. So the rocket would be inflicting 132-272 of damage (16 points less than said in the article).

I believe this is because the player width is 32, so it is impossible for the rocket explosion to inflict more than 112 of damage. In other words, the calculum is based on the center of a thing.

Fox666 20:37, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

Take a look at PIT_RadiusAttack in p_map.c - that's the iterator function that processes all objects caught in the explosion (based on blockmap sectors). They substract things' radii from the blast distance:

    dist = (dist - thing->radius) >> FRACBITS;
    
    if (dist < 0)
        dist = 0;
    
    if (dist >= bombdamage)
        return true;	// out of range
    
    if ( P_CheckSight (thing, bombspot) )
    {
        // must be in direct path
        P_DamageMobj (thing, bombspot, bombsource, bombdamage - dist);
    }

I suppose this makes the blast hit the object on its edge, where the damage is greater. By the way, Blast damage article also mentions this. Unmaker 08:46, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

Rate of fire

I was wondering, would it be a good idea to include the rate of fire of the Cyberdemon (and Mancubus)? That is, taking in consideration the delay beetween shots which is of 24 tics (87.5 RPM).

Fox666 04:40, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

I definitely think so (it's been on my to-do list for at least 4 years).  Moreover, the previous thread about direct hit damage is probably correct, and would also affect the data in the Rocket article.    Ryan W 05:53, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

For the sake of it, I have listed all the RPMs in my user page, if you want to check it. Fox666 08:13, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

You mean, assuming I actually remember how to read frame tables and all that?  :D   But I'll make a note of it, thanks.    Ryan W 19:21, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

From strictly technical point of view, the rate of fire can be correctly measured only for the chaingunner, the Nazi dude, and both kinds of spider demons, because they have a special check for refire in their attack frames. The rest of demons are essentially restricted from chain-firing by the engine putting them into walking state after every attack (except when playing with -fast setting), and in fact, in this regard there is no difference between the cyber, the mancubus or any other monster. Therefore it would be marginally informative and applicable only to fast monsters. Unmaker 01:50, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

We agree on everything but the last sentence.  Average ROF could be computed stochastically by summing over the probabilities of entering an attack state after each non-attack frame, with some reasonable assumptions about the motion of the target and any other interleaved RNG calls (such as a player's weapon firing).  The same method could be used to derive much more realistic results for tables such as "how many imp fireballs does it take to kill a mancubus".  I haven't been able to figure it out yet, and I haven't seen anyone else try either, so I've held off making further edits along those lines.    Ryan W 06:33, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

I am speaking about the delay beetween the shots of the Mancubus and Cyberdemon in the same volley. That is, the time beetween the first and second attack, and the second and third. Since the RPM refers to "how fast that weapon can fire", I don't think it would be a problem.     Fox666 13:25, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, cyberdemon and mancubus attacks are repeated. Here's the cyberdemon attack states:

   {SPR_CYBR,4,6,{A_FaceTarget},S_CYBER_ATK2,0,0},	// S_CYBER_ATK1
   {SPR_CYBR,5,12,{A_CyberAttack},S_CYBER_ATK3,0,0},	// S_CYBER_ATK2
   {SPR_CYBR,4,12,{A_FaceTarget},S_CYBER_ATK4,0,0},	// S_CYBER_ATK3
   {SPR_CYBR,5,12,{A_CyberAttack},S_CYBER_ATK5,0,0},	// S_CYBER_ATK4
   {SPR_CYBR,4,12,{A_FaceTarget},S_CYBER_ATK6,0,0},	// S_CYBER_ATK5
   {SPR_CYBR,5,12,{A_CyberAttack},S_CYBER_RUN1,0,0},	// S_CYBER_ATK6

And likewise for the mancubus:

   {SPR_FATT,6,20,{A_FatRaise},S_FATT_ATK2,0,0},	// S_FATT_ATK1
   {SPR_FATT,32775,10,{A_FatAttack1},S_FATT_ATK3,0,0},	// S_FATT_ATK2
   {SPR_FATT,8,5,{A_FaceTarget},S_FATT_ATK4,0,0},	// S_FATT_ATK3
   {SPR_FATT,6,5,{A_FaceTarget},S_FATT_ATK5,0,0},	// S_FATT_ATK4
   {SPR_FATT,32775,10,{A_FatAttack2},S_FATT_ATK6,0,0},	// S_FATT_ATK5
   {SPR_FATT,8,5,{A_FaceTarget},S_FATT_ATK7,0,0},	// S_FATT_ATK6
   {SPR_FATT,6,5,{A_FaceTarget},S_FATT_ATK8,0,0},	// S_FATT_ATK7
   {SPR_FATT,32775,10,{A_FatAttack3},S_FATT_ATK9,0,0},	// S_FATT_ATK8
   {SPR_FATT,8,5,{A_FaceTarget},S_FATT_ATK10,0,0},	// S_FATT_ATK9
   {SPR_FATT,6,5,{A_FaceTarget},S_FATT_RUN1,0,0},	// S_FATT_ATK10

(Remember, it's in order: sprite, frame (0=A, 1=B, etc.; add 32768 to make it a bright frame), duration in tics, codepointer, next frame, misc1, misc2.) You might find it more legible in DECORATE format, though.

Cyberdemon:

 Missile:
   CYBR E 6 A_FaceTarget
   CYBR F 12 A_CyberAttack
   CYBR E 12 A_FaceTarget
   CYBR F 12 A_CyberAttack
   CYBR E 12 A_FaceTarget
   CYBR F 12 A_CyberAttack
   Goto See

Mancubus:

 Missile:
   FATT G 20 A_FatRaise
   FATT H 10 Bright A_FatAttack1
   FATT IG 5
   FATT H 10 Bright A_FatAttack2
   FATT IG 5
   FATT H 10 Bright A_FatAttack3
   FATT IG 5
   Goto See

So, in total, the cyberdemon attack lasts for 66 tics and throws 3 rockets, first a delay of 6 tics then one rocket every 24 tics. (This can be considered as an average rate of fire of one rocket per 22 tics.) The mancubus attack lasts for 65 tics and throws six fireballs: there's a delay of 20 tics first, then a couple of fireballs every 15 tics. (This kinda averages to one fireball every 11 tics, in a way.)

Other Doom monsters aren't concerned, but you have similar attack patterns in monsters from other games. For example, the Heretic ophidian has an attack pattern with three weak projectiles followed by a strong one. --Gez 14:07, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

I would not take in account the first frame (which has a different timing), since that would be comparable to the 10 tics delay before the Heavy Weapons Dude repeat pattern starts. It comes down to the question of "what would happen if this monsters attacked continuously?".

I guess it's a little weird to think that the Cyberdemon RPM doesn't take in account the fact that his first rocket is actually faster than the others. But take in account that if the delay before the Heavy Weapons Dude fires was actually of 1 tic, that would also make him fires faster in the first shot. So there isn't really a technical standard here, just of circumstances.

That would make the Cyberdemon rate of fire 24 tics (RPM = 87.5) and the Mancubus 20 tics (RPM = 105 × 2) -- Fox666 02:19, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

Doom 64

Is there a source for the Cyberdemon's rockets firing any faster in 64? Ingame their rockets don't appear to be any different speed-wise from their Doom 1/2 counterparts, and the only actual functional difference I've noticed is that their rockets are naturally fired at a downward angle due to the rockets being fired from the actual launcher. OmegaTyrant (talk) 05:44, 17 January 2021 (CST)

If someone can't provide a source for the 64 Cyberdemon having any statistical differences, I'm just going to remove that info. OmegaTyrant (talk) 06:26, 23 January 2021 (CST)