Talk:Doom v0.5


Unknown items?[edit]

Does anyone know what the unknown items (powerups?) are in this version of "Spawning Vats"? The item id (thing id) is 2036, IIRC. 22:11, February 15, 2010 (UTC)

Oops, mistake; the ThingID is 2032 (between 2030 Flag Stand Marker and 2035 Exploding Barrel), and the item (two of the items to be precise) exists only in map 11 ("Spawning Vats") in one room (the "computer console" room, on both sides of the console); it is the only appearance of the item(s) in the entire Doom series. What is it, really? 09:26, February 16, 2010 (UTC)


Alright, most ppl kno it's rather simple to partly view the Limbo map (the one that's internally known as E2M1); just import NUKAGE4 - NUKAGE6 flats (w/ XWE or summit), rename the map marker to E1M1 (rename the "first" E1M1 something else) and start the game. That's it. Ak, even though it's a trivial affair to do, d'ya think it's a bit too non-general to include in the article? 05:49, March 15, 2010 (UTC)

Contradicting Romero[edit]

The levels made by Hall are mostly identical to retail, with the notable exception of texturing, contradicting developer John Romero's statement "most of [Tom Hall's] levels had very little work done to them, in fact".

This doesn't sound like a contradiction to me. I'm reading this as "very few changes were made to them." Where's this quote from originally? Dragonsbrethren 10:06, August 25, 2010 (UTC)

  • IIRC I have read a similar Romero quote in an age-old (online?) interview, but I cannot find it now. It does seem ambiguous; Romero, arguably outspoken and bubbly, is not the most eloquent of people. Watch any interview video from back in the day and you'll quickly agree. Anyhows, the closest thing I can find atm seems to be from here: . To me too, it seems it has the meaning Hall had done diddly to the levels prior to him being fired, but perhaps it means the opposite; why Hall then would be fired if his work was good enough for retail (bar minimal texturing) is anybody's guess. If the quote really does carry the meaning you are implying, it would make both Romero and Carmack sinister fellows indeed (firing a guy and removing him of all possible benefits--a friend, no less--for doing his job, whilst themselves reaping rewards amounting to hundreds of dollars); I find it hard to believe they would be that cold hearted. Then again, that is just opinion. Factually, the text can perhaps be read both ways, that is true. Your interpretation is very, very dark, though. Reword if you like. 10:41, September 6, 2010 (UTC)
You don't buy Testarossas with merely "hundreds of dollars". ;) --Gez 15:50, September 6, 2010 (UTC)
Well he probably meant 'hundreds of _thousands_ of dollars —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk)

I'm pretty sure that Dragonsbretheren's interpretation is correct here. It's mostly just a simple weighing of the evidence:

  • We know that Sandy Petersen did touching-up on the levels, but that it was just that - touching-up; no extensive redesigns. We can see Sandy's style in Doom II all over the place; if anything, he is the opposite of Tom Hall - Hall went for realistic (thus, "boring") designs, whereas Sandy went for less-realistic, more-fun ones, to the point where id staffers considered them less aesthetically pleasing than Romero's.
  • The reason id kicked Tom out was not due to his inability to map, it was that they felt that his creative vision of a story-driven FPS was out of whack with what they wanted (which was more arcade-like). Tom Hall left due to creative differences, not for lack of skill.
  • If id would've been truly dissatisfied with Tom's maps, they would've almost certainly scrapped them (as they cut plenty of other levels from the Alphas). The fact that they did not and, in fact, still used at least a good bunch of them shows that they did not think they were unusable.
    • If it was a bit strange to reuse them for Doom I, reusing the map that became MAP10: Refueling Base in Doom II would've been even stranger and flies in the face of logic even more, due to Doom II coming out a full year after Doom.
  • Romero's quote would be a bit strange-sounding if he were saying they were dissatisfied with Tom's mapping, the key words being "very little done to them." If he were dissatisfied with the levels or with Hall's skill at making them, it'd make no sense as to why they kept no less than eight maps of his levels, and even less sense that they'd put one of them into Doom II since by that time Sandy Petersen was fully on-board and a map-making machine.

So my conclusion would really be that what Romero was trying to say was "most of Tom Hall's levels had very little extra editing done to them." It's possible Sandy adjusted a thing or two here and there, and obviously some textures were swapped around, but it fits in with the evidence, the presentation, Sandy's own style of mapping being considerably different from Tom Hall's, and the logic. So we can conclude that this was just Romero using some wording that was a little unclear, or perhaps clearer in his head than on the record when he said that. --Dark Pulse 22:12, 11 October 2013 (UTC)