Talk:Stronghold: On the Edge of Chaos

From DoomWiki.org

Custom thing table[edit]

The entire thing about Stronghold's gameplay is that it's an invasion mod. There are a few items that can be picked up in some maps, but the large majority of monsters and items are spawned during invasion waves. However, here's a quick list of custom things. There are a lot, so it's not a full blown table yet. --Gez (talk) 17:19, 22 January 2020 (CST)

164	Duke Parking Meter
165	Duke Lamp Post
166	Duke Bin
167	Duke Box
168	Duke Trash Can
192	Green Particle Generator 64x64
193	Blue Particle Generator 64x64
194	Red Particle Generator 64x64
195	Orange Particle Generator 64x64
196	Jump Pad Indicator 64x64
2998	White Cloud
2999	Desert White Smoke Cloud Generator
3100	Firefly
3103	Dragonfly
3104	Red Strange Light
3105	Blue Strange Light
3106	White Strange Light
3107	Green Strange Light
3110	Blood Demon
3118	Enhanced Cacodemon
3119	Hell Warrior
3126	Shadow
3194	Portal Particle Leecher
3197	Radioactive Shower
3198	Thunder Generator
3199	Desert Sandstorm Cloud Generator
3201	Desert Sandstorm Particle Generator
3202	Rocket Guy
3333	Bruiser Demon
3551	White Particle Generator 64x64
3798	Rain Spawner
3799	Medium Water Splash
5118	Autoshotgun
5250	Purple Torch
5251	Blood Torch
5252	Cyan Torch
5254	Blood Firestick
5255	Cyan Firestick
5256	Pruple Firestick
5300	Yellow Torch
5301	White Torch
5302	Black Torch
5303	Torch Stick
5304	Yellow Firestick
5305	White Firestick
5307	Stick
5308	Red Wall Torch
5309	Blue Wall Torch
5310	Green Wall Torch
5311	Yellow Wall Torch
5312	White Wall Torch
5313	Purple Wall Torch
5314	Red Candle
5315	Blue Candle
5316	Green Candle
5317	Black Candle
5318	White Candle
5319	Chandelier
5320	Chandelier - No Fire
5324	Cave Pillar
5325	Cave Stalagmite 1
5326	Cave Stalagmite 2
5327	Cave Stalagmite 3
5328	Cave Stalactite 1
5329	Cave Stalactite 2
5330	Cave Stalactite 3
5340	City Street Lights
5341	Dead Tree
5342	Cactus 1
5343	City Hydrant
5344	Misc Cocktail
5345	Misc Bottle 1
5346	Misc Bottle 2
5347	City Trash Can
5348	Misc Lamp Desk
5349	Cactus 2
5350	Cactus 3
5351	Cactus 4
5613	Blood Red Wall Torch
6666	Moloch
8585	Odd Grass 1
8586	Odd Grass 2
8587	Odd Grass 3
8588	Odd Grass 4
8589	Crab
8590	Baby Crab
10100	Nightmare Demon
10716	Super Shield
11491	Green Beam
11492	Red Beam
11923	Ion Cannon Beam
11924	Ion Cannon Beam XXL
12345	Inferno Demon
12791	Portable Super Medikit
12792	Portable Medikit
12793	Time Freeze
12794	Quad Damage
12795	Invulnerability
12796	MaxArmorBonus
12797	MaxHealthBonus
12798	Barrier Kit
12851	Marine with Shotgun
12852	Marine with Chaingun
12853	Marine with SSG
12854	Marine with Rocket Launcher
12855	Marine with Plasma Rifle
12856	Sentry Turret
13004	Red Goal
13005	Orange Goal
13006	Blue Goal
13007	Green Goal
13008	White Goal
16999	Overmind
19251	Creep
19252	Brown Spiderbug
19253	Red Spiderbug
19996	Upward Steamer
19997	Forward Steamer
19998	Downward Steamer
20000	Sparkle B Down
20001	Sparkle B Normal
20002	Sparkle B Up
20003	Sparkle G Down
20004	Sparkle G Normal
20005	Sparkle G Up
20006	Sparkle O Down
20007	Sparkle O Normal
20008	Sparkle O Up
20009	Sparkle R Down
20010	Sparkle R Normal
20011	Sparkle R Up
20012	Sparkle C Down
20013	Sparkle C Normal
20014	Sparkle C Up
20015	Sparkle Y Down
20016	Sparkle Y Normal
20017	Sparkle Y Up
20018	Sparkle Fountain W
20019	Sparkle Fountain R
20020	Sparkle Fountain B
20021	Sparkle Fountain O
20022	Sparkle Fountain Y
20023	Sparkle Fountain G
20024	Liquid Fountain B1A
20025	Liquid Fountain B1B
20026	Liquid Fountain B1C
20027	Liquid Fountain B2A
20028	Liquid Fountain B2B
20029	Liquid Fountain B2C
20030	Liquid Fountain B3A
20031	Liquid Fountain B3B
20032	Liquid Fountain B3C
20033	Smoke
20034	Fire 1x
20088	Duke Babe Spawner
20100	Plasma Repeater
20101	Devastator
20102	Railgun
20103	Homing Rocket Launcher
20105	Flamethrower
20107	Pyro Cannon
20110	Fusion Spider
21012	Zombie Tank
21234	Power Core
21235	Alarm Sounder
21236	Exclamation
21750	Exclamation Spawner
21801	HoloDeco Mancutank
21802	HoloDeco Hades Sphere
21803	HoloDeco Dune Warrior
21804	HoloDeco Hell Warrior
21805	HoloDeco Azazel
21806	HoloDeco Guardian Cube
21807	HoloDeco Zombie Tank
21808	HoloDeco Archon of Hell
21809	HoloDeco Diabolist
21810	HoloDeco Pain Elemental
21811	HoloDeco Nightmare Demon
21812	HoloDeco Demon
21813	HoloDeco Mancubus
21814	HoloDeco Catharsi
21815	HoloDeco Cacodemon
21816	HoloDeco Hectebus
21817	HoloDeco Hades Elemental
21818	HoloDeco Hellion
21819	HoloDeco Demolisher
21820	HoloDeco Terminator
21821	HoloDeco Shadow
21822	HoloDeco Wicked
21823	HoloDeco Arch-Vile
21824	HoloDeco Phase Imp
21825	HoloDeco Revenant
21826	HoloDeco Lost Soul
21827	HoloDeco Suicide Bomber
21828	HoloDeco Enchanced Cacodemon
21829	HoloDeco Hell Knight
21830	HoloDeco Baron of Hell
21831	HoloDeco Spider Mastermind
21832	HoloDeco Chaingunner
21833	HoloDeco Blood Demon
21834	HoloDeco Imp
21835	HoloDeco Cybruiser
21836	HoloDeco Bruiser Demon
21837	HoloDeco Arachnotron
21838	HoloDeco Rocket Trooper
21839	HoloDeco Fusion Spider
21840	HoloDeco Cyberdemon
21841	HoloDeco Shotgunner
21842	HoloDeco Pyrodemon
21843	HoloDeco Zombieman
21900	Large Palm 1
21901	Large Tree 2
21903	Medium Tree 5
21904	Medium Tree 2
21905	Medium Tree 1
21906	Large Tree 3
21907	Small Bush 1
21908	Small Bush 2
21909	Small Grass 1
21910	Small Grass 2
21911	Large Bush 1
21912	Large Palm 2
21913	Medium Tree 4
21914	Medium Tree 3
22099	Suicide Bomber
22106	Gas
22107	Fuel
22250	Hectebus
22290	Mini Spider
22291	Large Spider
23057	Disco DJ Arch-Vile
23058	Disco Stripper
23059	Disco Woman
23060	Disco Marine 1
23061	Disco Sitting Marine
23062	Disco Marine 2
23063	Disco Marine 3
23099	Stunner Rifle
23333	Snow Spawner 512
23373	Comet Spawner 512
23475	I Win Button
24025	Autodrone
24026	Smart Bomb
24027	Time Freezer Pickup
24028	Quad Damage Powerup
24031	Regeneration
24040	Vampirism
24041	Protection
24042	Morpher
24105	Phase Imp
25003	Marine Reinforcements
25004	Sentry Turret Item
25005	Barrel Item
25006	Credits
25007	Weapon Powerup Kit
25010	Blood Fatty X
25023	Random Weapon Ite
25084	Land Mines
25085	Mines
25101	Static Marine 1
25102	Static Marine 2
25103	Static Scientist
25104	Static Armorer
25105	Static Seller
25106	Static Marine 5
25107	Static Marine 6
25108	Static Marine 7
25109	Static Female Marine
25926	Lives Item (Multiplayer Only)
28001	Lt. Randy Heit
28002	Sgt. M Niggel
28003	Prof Dr. Oelckers
28004	Sgt Rowand
28005	Lt. Toenail
28006	Prof I.C. Tux
28007	Major Bjorn V
28008	Prof Mike Cutman
28009	Sgt J. Paddock
28010	Cmd. Nick Baker
28011	Prof D Archon
28012	Col L.W. Mouse
28013	Lt W Weasel
28014	Lt. S Priestess
28015	Leonidas
28016	Dr Dentz
28017	Blast Hardcheese
28018	Greg T Great
28019	Private Gina
28020	Prof Dr Peg Cop
28021	Female Scientist
28022	Prof G Dragon
28023	McKenzie
28024	Reinhardt
28025	Thatcher
28026	Demonslayer
28027	Shoemaker
28028	Lt Carmack
28029	Starscream
28030	Sgt M Orpheus
29010	Blood Shotgun Cultist
29011	Blood Chaingun Cultist
29012	Ethereal Soul
29100	Bruiser Weapon
29123	Catharsi
29952	Overmind Core
30000	Apprentice of D'Sparil
30040	Dune Warrior
30102	Guardian Cube
30104	Archon of Hell
30105	Pyro Demon
30106	Wraith
30110	Spider Demolisher
30112	Diabolist
30115	Death Incarnate
30116	Hades Sphere
30119	Blood Thrall
30121	Blood Hell Hound
30127	Vulgar
30128	Cybruiser
30130	Terminator
30910	Access Disk Blue
30911	Access Disk Green
31002	Blood Zombie X
32701	Fire 2X
32702	Fire 4x

I've been sitting on this for a while to work on other projects, but I think I've compiled a custom things table with all the more useful actors. Some notes:

  • As Gez noted above, the vast majority of Stronghold actors are spawned via scripts and so will not appear in a table of things.
  • Most of the actors in category 1 only appear in MAP99, and a lot of them are named after prominent Doomers - I identified most of them but wouldn't mind some help to track down anyone I missed. The powerups in this level are for display only and not meant to be picked up (suggest these be counted separately like in Strife).
  • Is it worth documenting the custom monsters & items on the main article (there are plenty of them)?

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gauss (talkcontribs) .

# class	thing	wikiname	wikilink	
0	22290	Mini spider	
0	30116	Hades sphere	
0	3202	Rocket guy	Monster Resource WAD#Zombies
0	30106	Wraith	
0	29011	Chaingun cultist	
0	30132	Hellion	
0	3126	Shadow	
0	22099	Suicide bomber	
0	29010	Shotgun cultist	
0	30102	Guardian cube	
0	29012	Ethereal soul	
0	30119	Thrall	
0	30127	Vulgar	
0	29123	Catharsi	
0	30040	Dune warrior	
0	22291	Large spider	
0	24105	Phase imp	
0	31002	Axe zombie	
0	10100	Nightmare demon	
0	25010	Fat zombie	
0	30133	Wicked	
0	3110	Blood demon	Monster Resource WAD#Monsters
0	3118	Enhanced cacodemon	Monster Resource WAD#Monsters
0	30121	Hellhound	
0	3119	Hell warrior	Monster Resource WAD#Monsters
0	30115	Death incarnate	
0	30000	Apprentice of D'Sparil	
0	20110	Fusion spider	
0	21012	Zombie tank	
0	30112	Diabolist	
0	3333	Bruiser demon	Bruiser Demon (Beastiary)
0	22250	Hectebus	Skulltag#New monsters
0	30130	Hades elemental	
0	30104	Archon of Hell	
0	30105	Pyrodemon	
0	30128	Cybruiser	
0	30666	Terminator	
0	30110	Demolisher	
0	6666	Moloch	
0	12345	Infernodemon	
0	16999	Overmind	
1	12851	Marine (shotgun)	
1	12852	Marine (chaingun)	
1	12853	Marine (SSG)	
1	12854	Marine (rocket launcher)	
1	12855	Marine (plasma rifle)	
1	12856	Sentry turret	
1	23057	Disco DJ arch-vile	
1	23058	Disco stripper	
1	23059	Disco woman	
1	23060	Disco marine 1	
1	23061	Disco sitting marine	
1	23062	Disco marine 2	
1	23063	Disco marine 3	
1	25101	Static marine 1	
1	25102	Static marine 2	
1	25103	Static scientist	
1	25104	Static armorer	
1	25105	Static seller	
1	25106	Static marine 5	
1	25107	Static marine 6	
1	25108	Static marine 7	
1	25109	Static female marine	
1	28001	Lt. Randy Heit	Marisa Heit (Randi)
1	28002	Sgt. M Niggel	Michael Niggel (Risen)
1	28003	Prof Dr. Oelckers	Christoph Oelckers (Graf Zahl)
1	28004	Sgt Rowand	Nigel Rowand (Enjay)
1	28005	Lt. Toenail	Captain Toenail
1	28006	Prof I.C. Tux	Icytux
1	28007	Major Bjorn V	
1	28008	Prof Mike Cutman	Mike Hill (Cutmanmike)
1	28009	Sgt J. Paddock	James Paddock (Jimmy)
1	28010	Cmd. Nick Baker	Nick Baker (NiGHTMARE)
1	28011	Prof D Archon	Fraser Low (TheDarkArchon)
1	28012	Col L.W. Mouse	LilWhiteMouse
1	28013	Lt W Weasel	Corwin Brence (WildWeasel)
1	28014	Lt. S Priestess	Rachael Alexanderson (Eruanna)
1	28015	Leonidas	
1	28016	Dr Dentz	
1	28017	Blast Hardcheese	
1	28018	Greg T Great	
1	28019	Private Gina	
1	28020	Prof Dr Peg Cop	
1	28021	Female Scientist	
1	28022	Prof G Dragon	
1	28023	McKenzie	
1	28024	Reinhardt	
1	28025	Thatcher	
1	28026	Demonslayer	
1	28027	Shoemaker	
1	28028	Lt Carmack	Adrian Carmack
1	28029	Starscream	Pyroscourge
1	28030	Sgt M Orpheus	Gianluca Cilento (Remmirath)
2	5118	Autoshotgun	
2	20103	Homing rocket launcher	
2	25084	Land mines	
2	20102	Railgun	Skulltag#New weapons
2	23099	Stunner rifle	
2	20105	Flamethrower	
2	20107	Pyrocannon	
2	20100	Plasma repeater	
2	20101	Devastator	
3	22106	Gas	
3	22107	Fuel	
4	10716	Super shield	
5	12791	Portable super medikit	
5	12792	Portable medikit	
5	12793	Time Freeze	
5	12794	Quad Damage	
5	12795	Invulnerability	
5	12796	Max armor increase	
5	12797	Max health increase	
5	12798	Barrier Kit	
5	23475	'I Win' Button	
5	24025	Autodrone	
5	24026	Smart Bomb	
5	24027	Time Freezer pickup	
5	24028	Quad Damage pickup	
5	24031	Regeneration	
5	24040	Vampirism	
5	24041	Protection	
5	24042	Morpher	
5	25003	Marine Reinforcements	
5	25004	Sentry Turret Item	
5	25005	Barrel item	
5	25006	Credits	
5	25007	Weapon powerup kit	
5	25023	Random Weapon item	
5	25926	Extra life	
6	30910	Blue access disk	
6	30911	Green access disk	
7	13004	Red goal	
7	13005	Orange goal	
7	13006	Blue goal	
7	13007	Green goal	
7	13008	White goal	
7	20088	Duke Babe spawner	
7	21234	Power core	
7	29952	Overmind core	
Thanks for the table, that's good progress. I prepared a .ini file for the project and the generated skeletons indeed list very custom few monsters. DMMPST cannot do separate "display" counts of items, that would need to be a manual pass. How much time you'd like to spend on documenting stuff is up to you, it may depend on how the skeleton articles look to Gez and you. And you may also find spots to refine in the things table (like ordering), so I cleaned up the spacing above anticipation of possible future edits (tabs do matter in a .tsv). If updated, then I can easily regenerate the Things sections, but you better save any manual passes until after that has been ironed out. --Xymph (talk) 12:59, 7 June 2021 (CDT)
I've already prepared most of the documentation for custom things, although I'm only including monsters that appear in regular levels. As for writing walkthroughs, that needs a bit more thought (as Stronghold is far from a conventional Doom mod) but I'm thinking of including where the monsters start from and where they go, where players can find items, what monsters/items appear in each wave and other such details. I'm working through 2048 Unleashed at present so there will be plenty of time to work out the details. Gauss (talk) 13:53, 7 June 2021 (CDT)
I think having a separate sub-page for the Stronghold bestiary and arsenal (kind of like the ZDCMP2 walkthrough is on a separate subpage) would make sense. Same for any other mod with a lot of custom content. The spawning scripts are very standardized (using custom functions with clear names such as WaveEnemy, WaveAmmo, WaveMedic, and WaveWeapon) so it might be possible to generate tables by parsing them. This is one of the many, many projects I started one day and then left hanging as something else caught my attention... --Gez (talk) 15:01, 7 June 2021 (CDT)

Map slots[edit]

Works for me. I'm done with the skeletons, except for the slots. It would make little sense to populate the parent category with 39 STRxx entries, each containing one page. I propose to change the slot markers in the {{map}} templates to the normal MAPxx entries, then the maps at least appear in reasonably relevant slot cats. Thoughts about that? --Xymph (talk) 07:49, 8 June 2021 (CDT)

Yes, I've long thought that it'd make sense to have a single category -- something like "Levels with non-standard map slots" -- for everything that isn't in a ExMy or MAPzz slot. (I also think the Hexen maps should be made consistent with the rest, e.g. MAP01: Winnowing Hall. Thank you for coming to my TEDx Talk.) --Gez (talk) 08:51, 8 June 2021 (CDT)
I support Xymph's suggestion as well, as I can't think of any other projects that use the same naming convention for maps (but if there is or ever will be, Tormentor will probably be responsible). Gez's suggestion has merit and would clear away some categories that are unlikely to grow (think Category:Z1M1 and the like). Gauss (talk) 09:17, 8 June 2021 (CDT)
At the time I was reluctant to create the MAPXzz slots but felt they were necessary to avoid overlap with Simplicity's regular MAPzz slots. And there are quite a few more unusual patterns in the wiki's future, so the catch-all category is a better idea. But since the slot cats don't have the "Levels with" prefix, I think it should be called simply "Non-standard map slots". I've updated the {{map}} template accordingly. If this looks good to you folks, then I'll add the parameter to the Z1Mx and MAPXzz articles and delete those cats. --Xymph (talk) 06:04, 9 June 2021 (CDT)
Works for me. Gauss (talk) 06:50, 9 June 2021 (CDT)
Okay, done. Btw, I'm not in favor of using MAP slots for Hexen map articles, the player doesn't normally see slot numbers in the game. --Xymph (talk) 08:31, 9 June 2021 (CDT)

Map names[edit]

I just realised that a few of the level names are different from their article titles

Not sure why the level names are different, it's possible that the names changed during development. Should the articles be moved in this case? Gauss (talk) 14:53, 14 July 2021 (CDT)

Those were probably changed at some point, however Dusk is still called Dusk in the ACS script that presents the map. (Check acs_inc/description.acs). To make things more complicated, the "re-release" version again changed some of the MAPINFO names ([1]). Smoldering Caves is back (?) to Delta Bunker, but Dusk/Dust is now "Snake Corridors" apparently? And the scripted descriptions ([2]) for those are Delta Bunker, Snake Corridors, Terrorforming. Based on this, I'd support moving STR28, but not STR18. As for STR20, I'm not sure. --Gez (talk) 04:00, 15 July 2021 (CDT)
V1 is the version of Stronghold available on R667 and idgames so I was inclined to use that as the reference and make notes on articles where they differ, unless this re-release became official at some point. Gauss (talk) 05:54, 15 July 2021 (CDT)
The original map list probably came from strnghld_v1.txt (maybe Eris Falling can shed some light on that?), and includes STR32 as Snake Corridors. So if STR20 is changed, it'd be a swap with STR32 (no change to Dust) -- but keeping them as is makes more sense to me. Changing STR28 looks like the only safe move indeed. --Xymph (talk) 06:12, 15 July 2021 (CDT)
I'd back that idea and add some brief notes about map names to the affected articles. Gauss (talk) 10:14, 15 July 2021 (CDT)