Talk:Stronghold: On the Edge of Chaos
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Custom thing table[edit]
The entire thing about Stronghold's gameplay is that it's an invasion mod. There are a few items that can be picked up in some maps, but the large majority of monsters and items are spawned during invasion waves. However, here's a quick list of custom things. There are a lot, so it's not a full blown table yet. --Gez (talk) 17:19, 22 January 2020 (CST)
164 Duke Parking Meter 165 Duke Lamp Post 166 Duke Bin 167 Duke Box 168 Duke Trash Can 192 Green Particle Generator 64x64 193 Blue Particle Generator 64x64 194 Red Particle Generator 64x64 195 Orange Particle Generator 64x64 196 Jump Pad Indicator 64x64 2998 White Cloud 2999 Desert White Smoke Cloud Generator 3100 Firefly 3103 Dragonfly 3104 Red Strange Light 3105 Blue Strange Light 3106 White Strange Light 3107 Green Strange Light 3110 Blood Demon 3118 Enhanced Cacodemon 3119 Hell Warrior 3126 Shadow 3194 Portal Particle Leecher 3197 Radioactive Shower 3198 Thunder Generator 3199 Desert Sandstorm Cloud Generator 3201 Desert Sandstorm Particle Generator 3202 Rocket Guy 3333 Bruiser Demon 3551 White Particle Generator 64x64 3798 Rain Spawner 3799 Medium Water Splash 5118 Autoshotgun 5250 Purple Torch 5251 Blood Torch 5252 Cyan Torch 5254 Blood Firestick 5255 Cyan Firestick 5256 Pruple Firestick 5300 Yellow Torch 5301 White Torch 5302 Black Torch 5303 Torch Stick 5304 Yellow Firestick 5305 White Firestick 5307 Stick 5308 Red Wall Torch 5309 Blue Wall Torch 5310 Green Wall Torch 5311 Yellow Wall Torch 5312 White Wall Torch 5313 Purple Wall Torch 5314 Red Candle 5315 Blue Candle 5316 Green Candle 5317 Black Candle 5318 White Candle 5319 Chandelier 5320 Chandelier - No Fire 5324 Cave Pillar 5325 Cave Stalagmite 1 5326 Cave Stalagmite 2 5327 Cave Stalagmite 3 5328 Cave Stalactite 1 5329 Cave Stalactite 2 5330 Cave Stalactite 3 5340 City Street Lights 5341 Dead Tree 5342 Cactus 1 5343 City Hydrant 5344 Misc Cocktail 5345 Misc Bottle 1 5346 Misc Bottle 2 5347 City Trash Can 5348 Misc Lamp Desk 5349 Cactus 2 5350 Cactus 3 5351 Cactus 4 5613 Blood Red Wall Torch 6666 Moloch 8585 Odd Grass 1 8586 Odd Grass 2 8587 Odd Grass 3 8588 Odd Grass 4 8589 Crab 8590 Baby Crab 10100 Nightmare Demon 10716 Super Shield 11491 Green Beam 11492 Red Beam 11923 Ion Cannon Beam 11924 Ion Cannon Beam XXL 12345 Inferno Demon 12791 Portable Super Medikit 12792 Portable Medikit 12793 Time Freeze 12794 Quad Damage 12795 Invulnerability 12796 MaxArmorBonus 12797 MaxHealthBonus 12798 Barrier Kit 12851 Marine with Shotgun 12852 Marine with Chaingun 12853 Marine with SSG 12854 Marine with Rocket Launcher 12855 Marine with Plasma Rifle 12856 Sentry Turret 13004 Red Goal 13005 Orange Goal 13006 Blue Goal 13007 Green Goal 13008 White Goal 16999 Overmind 19251 Creep 19252 Brown Spiderbug 19253 Red Spiderbug 19996 Upward Steamer 19997 Forward Steamer 19998 Downward Steamer 20000 Sparkle B Down 20001 Sparkle B Normal 20002 Sparkle B Up 20003 Sparkle G Down 20004 Sparkle G Normal 20005 Sparkle G Up 20006 Sparkle O Down 20007 Sparkle O Normal 20008 Sparkle O Up 20009 Sparkle R Down 20010 Sparkle R Normal 20011 Sparkle R Up 20012 Sparkle C Down 20013 Sparkle C Normal 20014 Sparkle C Up 20015 Sparkle Y Down 20016 Sparkle Y Normal 20017 Sparkle Y Up 20018 Sparkle Fountain W 20019 Sparkle Fountain R 20020 Sparkle Fountain B 20021 Sparkle Fountain O 20022 Sparkle Fountain Y 20023 Sparkle Fountain G 20024 Liquid Fountain B1A 20025 Liquid Fountain B1B 20026 Liquid Fountain B1C 20027 Liquid Fountain B2A 20028 Liquid Fountain B2B 20029 Liquid Fountain B2C 20030 Liquid Fountain B3A 20031 Liquid Fountain B3B 20032 Liquid Fountain B3C 20033 Smoke 20034 Fire 1x 20088 Duke Babe Spawner 20100 Plasma Repeater 20101 Devastator 20102 Railgun 20103 Homing Rocket Launcher 20105 Flamethrower 20107 Pyro Cannon 20110 Fusion Spider 21012 Zombie Tank 21234 Power Core 21235 Alarm Sounder 21236 Exclamation 21750 Exclamation Spawner 21801 HoloDeco Mancutank 21802 HoloDeco Hades Sphere 21803 HoloDeco Dune Warrior 21804 HoloDeco Hell Warrior 21805 HoloDeco Azazel 21806 HoloDeco Guardian Cube 21807 HoloDeco Zombie Tank 21808 HoloDeco Archon of Hell 21809 HoloDeco Diabolist 21810 HoloDeco Pain Elemental 21811 HoloDeco Nightmare Demon 21812 HoloDeco Demon 21813 HoloDeco Mancubus 21814 HoloDeco Catharsi 21815 HoloDeco Cacodemon 21816 HoloDeco Hectebus 21817 HoloDeco Hades Elemental 21818 HoloDeco Hellion 21819 HoloDeco Demolisher 21820 HoloDeco Terminator 21821 HoloDeco Shadow 21822 HoloDeco Wicked 21823 HoloDeco Arch-Vile 21824 HoloDeco Phase Imp 21825 HoloDeco Revenant 21826 HoloDeco Lost Soul 21827 HoloDeco Suicide Bomber 21828 HoloDeco Enchanced Cacodemon 21829 HoloDeco Hell Knight 21830 HoloDeco Baron of Hell 21831 HoloDeco Spider Mastermind 21832 HoloDeco Chaingunner 21833 HoloDeco Blood Demon 21834 HoloDeco Imp 21835 HoloDeco Cybruiser 21836 HoloDeco Bruiser Demon 21837 HoloDeco Arachnotron 21838 HoloDeco Rocket Trooper 21839 HoloDeco Fusion Spider 21840 HoloDeco Cyberdemon 21841 HoloDeco Shotgunner 21842 HoloDeco Pyrodemon 21843 HoloDeco Zombieman 21900 Large Palm 1 21901 Large Tree 2 21903 Medium Tree 5 21904 Medium Tree 2 21905 Medium Tree 1 21906 Large Tree 3 21907 Small Bush 1 21908 Small Bush 2 21909 Small Grass 1 21910 Small Grass 2 21911 Large Bush 1 21912 Large Palm 2 21913 Medium Tree 4 21914 Medium Tree 3 22099 Suicide Bomber 22106 Gas 22107 Fuel 22250 Hectebus 22290 Mini Spider 22291 Large Spider 23057 Disco DJ Arch-Vile 23058 Disco Stripper 23059 Disco Woman 23060 Disco Marine 1 23061 Disco Sitting Marine 23062 Disco Marine 2 23063 Disco Marine 3 23099 Stunner Rifle 23333 Snow Spawner 512 23373 Comet Spawner 512 23475 I Win Button 24025 Autodrone 24026 Smart Bomb 24027 Time Freezer Pickup 24028 Quad Damage Powerup 24031 Regeneration 24040 Vampirism 24041 Protection 24042 Morpher 24105 Phase Imp 25003 Marine Reinforcements 25004 Sentry Turret Item 25005 Barrel Item 25006 Credits 25007 Weapon Powerup Kit 25010 Blood Fatty X 25023 Random Weapon Ite 25084 Land Mines 25085 Mines 25101 Static Marine 1 25102 Static Marine 2 25103 Static Scientist 25104 Static Armorer 25105 Static Seller 25106 Static Marine 5 25107 Static Marine 6 25108 Static Marine 7 25109 Static Female Marine 25926 Lives Item (Multiplayer Only) 28001 Lt. Randy Heit 28002 Sgt. M Niggel 28003 Prof Dr. Oelckers 28004 Sgt Rowand 28005 Lt. Toenail 28006 Prof I.C. Tux 28007 Major Bjorn V 28008 Prof Mike Cutman 28009 Sgt J. Paddock 28010 Cmd. Nick Baker 28011 Prof D Archon 28012 Col L.W. Mouse 28013 Lt W Weasel 28014 Lt. S Priestess 28015 Leonidas 28016 Dr Dentz 28017 Blast Hardcheese 28018 Greg T Great 28019 Private Gina 28020 Prof Dr Peg Cop 28021 Female Scientist 28022 Prof G Dragon 28023 McKenzie 28024 Reinhardt 28025 Thatcher 28026 Demonslayer 28027 Shoemaker 28028 Lt Carmack 28029 Starscream 28030 Sgt M Orpheus 29010 Blood Shotgun Cultist 29011 Blood Chaingun Cultist 29012 Ethereal Soul 29100 Bruiser Weapon 29123 Catharsi 29952 Overmind Core 30000 Apprentice of D'Sparil 30040 Dune Warrior 30102 Guardian Cube 30104 Archon of Hell 30105 Pyro Demon 30106 Wraith 30110 Spider Demolisher 30112 Diabolist 30115 Death Incarnate 30116 Hades Sphere 30119 Blood Thrall 30121 Blood Hell Hound 30127 Vulgar 30128 Cybruiser 30130 Terminator 30910 Access Disk Blue 30911 Access Disk Green 31002 Blood Zombie X 32701 Fire 2X 32702 Fire 4x
I've been sitting on this for a while to work on other projects, but I think I've compiled a custom things table with all the more useful actors. Some notes:
- As Gez noted above, the vast majority of Stronghold actors are spawned via scripts and so will not appear in a table of things.
- Most of the actors in category 1 only appear in MAP99, and a lot of them are named after prominent Doomers - I identified most of them but wouldn't mind some help to track down anyone I missed. The powerups in this level are for display only and not meant to be picked up (suggest these be counted separately like in Strife).
- Is it worth documenting the custom monsters & items on the main article (there are plenty of them)?
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gauss (talk • contribs) .
# class thing wikiname wikilink 0 22290 Mini spider 0 30116 Hades sphere 0 3202 Rocket guy Monster Resource WAD#Zombies 0 30106 Wraith 0 29011 Chaingun cultist 0 30132 Hellion 0 3126 Shadow 0 22099 Suicide bomber 0 29010 Shotgun cultist 0 30102 Guardian cube 0 29012 Ethereal soul 0 30119 Thrall 0 30127 Vulgar 0 29123 Catharsi 0 30040 Dune warrior 0 22291 Large spider 0 24105 Phase imp 0 31002 Axe zombie 0 10100 Nightmare demon 0 25010 Fat zombie 0 30133 Wicked 0 3110 Blood demon Monster Resource WAD#Monsters 0 3118 Enhanced cacodemon Monster Resource WAD#Monsters 0 30121 Hellhound 0 3119 Hell warrior Monster Resource WAD#Monsters 0 30115 Death incarnate 0 30000 Apprentice of D'Sparil 0 20110 Fusion spider 0 21012 Zombie tank 0 30112 Diabolist 0 3333 Bruiser demon Bruiser Demon (Beastiary) 0 22250 Hectebus Skulltag#New monsters 0 30130 Hades elemental 0 30104 Archon of Hell 0 30105 Pyrodemon 0 30128 Cybruiser 0 30666 Terminator 0 30110 Demolisher 0 6666 Moloch 0 12345 Infernodemon 0 16999 Overmind 1 12851 Marine (shotgun) 1 12852 Marine (chaingun) 1 12853 Marine (SSG) 1 12854 Marine (rocket launcher) 1 12855 Marine (plasma rifle) 1 12856 Sentry turret 1 23057 Disco DJ arch-vile 1 23058 Disco stripper 1 23059 Disco woman 1 23060 Disco marine 1 1 23061 Disco sitting marine 1 23062 Disco marine 2 1 23063 Disco marine 3 1 25101 Static marine 1 1 25102 Static marine 2 1 25103 Static scientist 1 25104 Static armorer 1 25105 Static seller 1 25106 Static marine 5 1 25107 Static marine 6 1 25108 Static marine 7 1 25109 Static female marine 1 28001 Lt. Randy Heit Marisa Heit (Randi) 1 28002 Sgt. M Niggel Michael Niggel (Risen) 1 28003 Prof Dr. Oelckers Christoph Oelckers (Graf Zahl) 1 28004 Sgt Rowand Nigel Rowand (Enjay) 1 28005 Lt. Toenail Captain Toenail 1 28006 Prof I.C. Tux Icytux 1 28007 Major Bjorn V 1 28008 Prof Mike Cutman Mike Hill (Cutmanmike) 1 28009 Sgt J. Paddock James Paddock (Jimmy) 1 28010 Cmd. Nick Baker Nick Baker (NiGHTMARE) 1 28011 Prof D Archon Fraser Low (TheDarkArchon) 1 28012 Col L.W. Mouse LilWhiteMouse 1 28013 Lt W Weasel Corwin Brence (WildWeasel) 1 28014 Lt. S Priestess Rachael Alexanderson (Eruanna) 1 28015 Leonidas 1 28016 Dr Dentz 1 28017 Blast Hardcheese 1 28018 Greg T Great 1 28019 Private Gina 1 28020 Prof Dr Peg Cop 1 28021 Female Scientist 1 28022 Prof G Dragon 1 28023 McKenzie 1 28024 Reinhardt 1 28025 Thatcher 1 28026 Demonslayer 1 28027 Shoemaker 1 28028 Lt Carmack Adrian Carmack 1 28029 Starscream Pyroscourge 1 28030 Sgt M Orpheus Gianluca Cilento (Remmirath) 2 5118 Autoshotgun 2 20103 Homing rocket launcher 2 25084 Land mines 2 20102 Railgun Skulltag#New weapons 2 23099 Stunner rifle 2 20105 Flamethrower 2 20107 Pyrocannon 2 20100 Plasma repeater 2 20101 Devastator 3 22106 Gas 3 22107 Fuel 4 10716 Super shield 5 12791 Portable super medikit 5 12792 Portable medikit 5 12793 Time Freeze 5 12794 Quad Damage 5 12795 Invulnerability 5 12796 Max armor increase 5 12797 Max health increase 5 12798 Barrier Kit 5 23475 'I Win' Button 5 24025 Autodrone 5 24026 Smart Bomb 5 24027 Time Freezer pickup 5 24028 Quad Damage pickup 5 24031 Regeneration 5 24040 Vampirism 5 24041 Protection 5 24042 Morpher 5 25003 Marine Reinforcements 5 25004 Sentry Turret Item 5 25005 Barrel item 5 25006 Credits 5 25007 Weapon powerup kit 5 25023 Random Weapon item 5 25926 Extra life 6 30910 Blue access disk 6 30911 Green access disk 7 13004 Red goal 7 13005 Orange goal 7 13006 Blue goal 7 13007 Green goal 7 13008 White goal 7 20088 Duke Babe spawner 7 21234 Power core 7 29952 Overmind core
- Thanks for the table, that's good progress. I prepared a .ini file for the project and the generated skeletons indeed list very custom few monsters. DMMPST cannot do separate "display" counts of items, that would need to be a manual pass. How much time you'd like to spend on documenting stuff is up to you, it may depend on how the skeleton articles look to Gez and you. And you may also find spots to refine in the things table (like ordering), so I cleaned up the spacing above anticipation of possible future edits (tabs do matter in a .tsv). If updated, then I can easily regenerate the Things sections, but you better save any manual passes until after that has been ironed out. --Xymph (talk) 12:59, 7 June 2021 (CDT)
- I've already prepared most of the documentation for custom things, although I'm only including monsters that appear in regular levels. As for writing walkthroughs, that needs a bit more thought (as Stronghold is far from a conventional Doom mod) but I'm thinking of including where the monsters start from and where they go, where players can find items, what monsters/items appear in each wave and other such details. I'm working through 2048 Unleashed at present so there will be plenty of time to work out the details. Gauss (talk) 13:53, 7 June 2021 (CDT)
- I think having a separate sub-page for the Stronghold bestiary and arsenal (kind of like the ZDCMP2 walkthrough is on a separate subpage) would make sense. Same for any other mod with a lot of custom content. The spawning scripts are very standardized (using custom functions with clear names such as WaveEnemy, WaveAmmo, WaveMedic, and WaveWeapon) so it might be possible to generate tables by parsing them. This is one of the many, many projects I started one day and then left hanging as something else caught my attention... --Gez (talk) 15:01, 7 June 2021 (CDT)
- I've already prepared most of the documentation for custom things, although I'm only including monsters that appear in regular levels. As for writing walkthroughs, that needs a bit more thought (as Stronghold is far from a conventional Doom mod) but I'm thinking of including where the monsters start from and where they go, where players can find items, what monsters/items appear in each wave and other such details. I'm working through 2048 Unleashed at present so there will be plenty of time to work out the details. Gauss (talk) 13:53, 7 June 2021 (CDT)
Map slots[edit]
Works for me. I'm done with the skeletons, except for the slots. It would make little sense to populate the parent category with 39 STRxx entries, each containing one page. I propose to change the slot markers in the {{map}} templates to the normal MAPxx entries, then the maps at least appear in reasonably relevant slot cats. Thoughts about that? --Xymph (talk) 07:49, 8 June 2021 (CDT)
- Yes, I've long thought that it'd make sense to have a single category -- something like "Levels with non-standard map slots" -- for everything that isn't in a ExMy or MAPzz slot. (I also think the Hexen maps should be made consistent with the rest, e.g. MAP01: Winnowing Hall. Thank you for coming to my TEDx Talk.) --Gez (talk) 08:51, 8 June 2021 (CDT)
- I support Xymph's suggestion as well, as I can't think of any other projects that use the same naming convention for maps (but if there is or ever will be, Tormentor will probably be responsible). Gez's suggestion has merit and would clear away some categories that are unlikely to grow (think Category:Z1M1 and the like). Gauss (talk) 09:17, 8 June 2021 (CDT)
- At the time I was reluctant to create the MAPXzz slots but felt they were necessary to avoid overlap with Simplicity's regular MAPzz slots. And there are quite a few more unusual patterns in the wiki's future, so the catch-all category is a better idea. But since the slot cats don't have the "Levels with" prefix, I think it should be called simply "Non-standard map slots". I've updated the {{map}} template accordingly. If this looks good to you folks, then I'll add the parameter to the Z1Mx and MAPXzz articles and delete those cats. --Xymph (talk) 06:04, 9 June 2021 (CDT)
Map names[edit]
I just realised that a few of the level names are different from their article titles
- STR18: Delta Bunker is called "Smoldering Caves" in MAPINFO.
- STR20: Dusk is called "Dust".
- STR28: Terraforming is called "Terrorforming"
Not sure why the level names are different, it's possible that the names changed during development. Should the articles be moved in this case? Gauss (talk) 14:53, 14 July 2021 (CDT)
- Those were probably changed at some point, however Dusk is still called Dusk in the ACS script that presents the map. (Check acs_inc/description.acs). To make things more complicated, the "re-release" version again changed some of the MAPINFO names ([1]). Smoldering Caves is back (?) to Delta Bunker, but Dusk/Dust is now "Snake Corridors" apparently? And the scripted descriptions ([2]) for those are Delta Bunker, Snake Corridors, Terrorforming. Based on this, I'd support moving STR28, but not STR18. As for STR20, I'm not sure. --Gez (talk) 04:00, 15 July 2021 (CDT)
- V1 is the version of Stronghold available on R667 and idgames so I was inclined to use that as the reference and make notes on articles where they differ, unless this re-release became official at some point. Gauss (talk) 05:54, 15 July 2021 (CDT)
- The original map list probably came from strnghld_v1.txt (maybe Eris Falling can shed some light on that?), and includes STR32 as Snake Corridors. So if STR20 is changed, it'd be a swap with STR32 (no change to Dust) -- but keeping them as is makes more sense to me. Changing STR28 looks like the only safe move indeed. --Xymph (talk) 06:12, 15 July 2021 (CDT)
- V1 is the version of Stronghold available on R667 and idgames so I was inclined to use that as the reference and make notes on articles where they differ, unless this re-release became official at some point. Gauss (talk) 05:54, 15 July 2021 (CDT)