- That's it! Dunno why I couldn't find any of those threads based on kmxexii's description. If others actually have the stomach to draft such articles, then I'll certainly leave them to it. Thanks much. Ryan W (talk) 22:38, 2 March 2016 (CST)
Hi, here's a (possibly incomplete) list of redlinks that are meant to point to existing pages or should at least be pointing elsewhere, in case such pages exist in future. I'm trying to clean up Special:WantedPages a bit, there's quite a few at the bottom that are only pointing to this page.
- AD-79 -> Brayden Hart (AD_79) or AD_79
- Matt Powell (Cannonball) -> Matt Powell (cannonball) (I don't understand why this redlinks, but it does.)
- S.U.P.E.R.N.A.T.U.R.A.L -> S.U.P.E.R. Natural
- Anything 32in24-xx -> 32in24 (series)
- Nicholas Monti -> Nicolas Monti
- WolvenDoom: Blade of Agony -> WolfenDoom: Blade of Agony
- Slaughtermap -> Slaughter map
- Coffee Break Episode I -> Coffee Break
- No End in Sight -> No End In Sight
- Mordeth E2 -> Mordeth
- Invisible sector -> Self-referencing sector (?)
- Ghouls vs Humans -> The Ghoul's Forest (series)#Ghouls vs Humans
- Doom: Threshold of Pain -> Threshold of Pain
- Voodoo doll scripting -> Voodoo doll
- Also, my name isn't Aries Thölin! :)
- Wow, thanks for reading so carefully, which I didn't expect anyone to do ever. :> I changed the most obvious cases per the intro section, but I will come back when more brain cells are available — it's possible that some should be redirects, especially if they will someday be articles theoretically (like 32in24). Sorry about the name, also; I have no idea where I found that! Ryan W (usually gone) 17:27, 28 March 2017 (CDT)
- I'm not against having each 32in24 having its own article (especially those linked to cacowards, that includes -16). I've redirected their most common names so far, I guess subtitles and stuff can be handled if those individual articles actually happen. At some point I'll probably do the same for some of those other series, like KZDoom. --Eris Falling (talk) 17:49, 28 March 2017 (CDT)
- IMO voodoo doll scripting should have its own article, due to the longevity of the topic and the length required for technical descriptions with examples (yes, I realize I'm saying this without dropping everything to start it RIGHT NOW). I can't prevent anyone from creating a redirect
or a brief stubto get rid of the redlink, but at least if there is a redlink, people will occasionally be reminded that content could be added, which is the whole purpose of that list. Ryan W (usually gone) 14:11, 7 April 2017 (CDT)
By request, I've given the list another look through:
- Town of Witchcraft -> Town Of Witchcraft (really MediaWiki?)
- Halo of Wonders -> Halo Of Wonders
- The Community Is Falling 2 -> The Community is Falling 2
- Strife: Return of The Order -> Return of The Order
- Strife: Day of the Acolyte -> Day of the Acolyte
- Shadows of Cronos -> Shadows of Chronos
- Matthew McGee (AgentSpork) -> Matthew McGee (Agent Spork)
- Doom 64 For Doom II -> Doom 64 for Doom II
- Happy Time Circus 2 -> Happy Time Circus II
- Ravage -> Jason Allison (rf`)
I don't see anything else that's incorrect for now, but there are a few cases where I'm not sure if stuff really needs to be linked:
- Individual demos: We have some articles for these already, but I'm not sure if most of the ones on the list warrant their own article. 30pn4357 strikes me as the most obvious candidate for an article as it was long considered to be impossible, and even received some media attention. Maybe 30uv1959 too, Doom II in under 20 minutes non-TAS.
- Nobody knows. Off the top of my head, I'd guess you're right, by analogy with the discussions on WAD significance; the written rule even says as much, but like most it was added without discussion IIRC. We have had so little expert input on speedrunning that the big evolutionary changes (venues, strategies, collaborations, verification tools) remain basically undocumented thus far.
- This is a case that falls under the "patience" section of my DWF post. If you or anyone else wants to start an actual visible thread and try to build consensus on criteria, you're completely free to do that. (I never have because I'm not yet in a position to do the legwork, though I remain a COMPET-N fanboy and would like to help.) Until then, guidelines aren't decided on user talk, and removing red links won't solve the problem, only conceal it until someone creates a more professional TODO. Hope that makes some sense; I've had no caffeine today. Ryan W (living fossil)
- Glass floor/ceiling: Portal?
- Apparently the quote is: "Doom has recently turned 12 . . . In that time we've see almost everything there is to Doom: pacifist Map07, glass floors and ceilings, and the advent of powerful ports." Not very specific, although in the context of a highly sophisticated vanilla mod, one could infer it's something vanilla-based. Ryan W (living fossil)
- GL lighting: Not sure what this article would be. First thing that springs to mind is dynamic light, which is admittedly a fairly simplistic article, but it does go beyond that.
- Void 2: Nonexistent WAD
- Women in the Doom community: Not sure what this article would be.
- I'm not sure either, but I recall reading about it from time to time, and my own lack of historical knowledge or common sense shouldn't preclude coverage of important subjects. Is the Doom community unusual in this regard, by comparison with gamers/fandoms as a whole? Ryan W (living fossil) for example suggests we are like everyone else (in which case we can probably defer to the competent journalists already involved).
- NM pacifist: Not an "officially recognised" category. Such runs are treated as NM speed and maybe have a notice saying they are also pacifist runs.
- Darknation's rectum: C'mon now :P
- Voidship 2 + The Lost Gateway: Nonexistent WADs
- GL Fog: We have a general fog article, and the ZDoom wiki article has a brief outline of OpenGL extensions.
- It means whatever Ryan W (living fossil) implemented :> though I suspect you're on the right track. (In general we've developed a habit of omitting ZDoom editing details because the ZDoom wiki does them so thoroughly, which is a reasonable position in terms of prioritization, but IMO we should at least have taxonomies with links someday. For all ports.)
- Russian Overkill: Reinforcements from Moldova: I was working on a Russian Overkill draft years ago, but never finished it. Reinforcements from Moldova was an expansion that was later merged into the main mod, so this would just become redirect.
- Start to crate: Fun as it was, I'm not convinced sidebar filler merits its own article.
- Deus Vult II 2: Hypothetical WAD sequel, afaik.
- Silent teleporter: I think there's not much to say about these other than what's already in the main teleporter article. Redirect?
- 4chan: Non-Doom website, doesn't merit its own article.
- IMO a generic tech topic can be written up if specific Doom-related activity occurred there and accumulated a sub-community for a period of time. We already have articles on shareware and Usenet groups, and someone could easily add YouTube if they were a regular. OTOH there are cases where Doomers don't do anything differently than the rest of the internet, and so don't need an article. "DRM" comes to mind, and perhaps "Abandonware" can redirect to GetWAD. :7 Ryan W (living fossil)
- Survival: This is just co-op with a lives limit. Redirect to Multiplayer#Cooperative I guess, and add a short sentence.
- Combat Shock 3: Borderline hypothetical WAD I guess. It existed at some point, then some maps turned up in Sunlust, and the rest is unknown.
- Every unreleased WAD on this list: In general the guideline is that unreleased mods don't qualify for articles, some will eventually be released, others maybe not. I'm not sure if this question has ever arisen, but should they even be linked to in the first place?
- A red link is a normal and expected step in an article's life cycle. Even in the (very rare!) cases where non-notability was crystal clear, prohibiting red links would hurt more than it helped IMO — our rules should never imply that only "finished" content may be submitted. It's a wiki; if an edit has seams showing, it will get stitched up sooner or later. Most aren't even visible or googleable in the meantime.
- The "unreleased mod" guideline has been controversial ever since it was written. I disputed it myself when I showed up, then tried to enforce it, with ugly results. Over the years, discussions like this have happened which strongly suggest most people don't approve, and nowadays I agree: it's too blunt an instrument for the diverse actions and reactions of the Doom populace. A mapset can be uploaded without making an impression, a vaporware mapset can gather intense interest, and in between is a continuum.
- Of the unreleased WADs named by the Cacoward writers, I'm pretty sure some are legitimately in development hell while others are jokes. I often can't tell the difference, however, because I'm stuck in 1994 and not following the news headlines. You are far more connected, but if you aren't certain either, I don't see harm in leaving the links alone until this page is deleted. Ryan W (living fossil)
Watson/Collins: Void + Ship + sequel = No idea for the second; it seems the first two words would have to be "Awful Lost" and there's nothing that starts like this on the idgames archive. --Gez (talk) 14:22, 7 April 2017 (CDT)
- Maybe a year or so back, idgames reviews switched to have newest first. So you're actually after "The Lost." Out of the Robinsons' works, I found Eris Falling (talk) 15:00, 7 April 2017 (CDT) . The closest I could find that combines all three was . --
The 2013 entry for "Untitled #2" should point to Untitled 2,
"Halo of Wonders" to Halo Of Wonders, "Town of Witchcraft" to Town Of Witchcraft, "Strife: Return of The Order" to Return of The Order, and "Strife: Day of the Acolyte" to Day of the Acolyte.
- Chord: fixed. I'm doing this without checking TITLEPICs or anything, so in the year 71853 when I reach the third-party walkthroughs, I may ping you and Eris again. :>
- How Not To Be Seen: fixed.
- Untitled: fixed, my fault. (With the amount of time this took, I didn't notice reserved characters?)
- Redirects: upon rereading Eris's posts, I agree with you. We don't say "Heretic: Heretic Treasure Chest", for example, just because it happens to use a non-Doom IWAD.
- Classic Episode: fixed.
- Thank you, as always, for wanting there to be actual game content underneath certain people's pontifications. :> Ryan W (living fossil)
Others have expended substantial effort to improve this page, so I'll try to explain.
I don't think I had a clear plan in 2016, and I still don't. Perhaps I hoped that missing coverage would simply materialize as redlinks, as a side effect of the continued work of the bot and several users creating umbrella articles (who do a great job btw!). But in hindsight, it seems virtually redundant with the publication. Awardees and runners-up are as uncontroversial as before, and non-modding topics are as uncertain as before. I'm sure I was the wrong person to do triage as well; plugged-in community members can immediately separate a joke or a deliberately off-topic proposal from a rising star.
It's been stated that we treat DW as the start and end of historiography, which hopelessly skews our scope discussions. Without rehashing that debate, I'll note how many other general references have gone dark since the 1990s. Those of us who weren't involved back then, and can't afford to travel the world scouring offline media, sometimes feel confined. If I were starting this list today, I would advance one subtopic at a time in an RFC: speedrunning, development and advanced features, mapping tropes/tricks, 1994 mods, 1995 mods, ... That wouldn't immediately solve the problem, but the smaller territory might make it easier to focus (myself included) and establish methods for locating specialized/archival sources in each area. Ideally, after enough iterations, trends might emerge that finally pointed us toward a general guideline. See these threads for some related discussion about WADs.
Anyway, my offer to move the list to someone else's space stands, if you think it can eventually lead somewhere. Currently, what I'm hearing from the feedback is that it mainly serves to bloat Special:WantedPages. :( Thanks again to the contributors above, for their attention to detail and for seeing implications I missed. Ryan W (living fossil) 01:23, 15 December 2019 (CST)
- > mainly serves to bloat Special:WantedPages
- Just my two cents but if people have gotten so religious about trying to empty that list out that they'd rather important topics not be linked (thus indicating that they are in fact, wanted pages) than to get around to creating the pages, then the whole effort has become wrong-headed and is damaging to the wiki. --Quasar (talk) 09:49, 16 December 2019 (CST)
- I agree, although I believe most of the stuff that was linked only from this page was stuff that wasn't really article worthy. That said, it would have been nice to do a review specifically of that stuff before deletion, in case there was something we missed. --Eris Falling (talk) 06:28, 17 December 2019 (CST)
I recommend ignoring these. We have a page for every ceremony now, with its redlinks pre-populated. If a name was linked here but not there, it's most likely another misunderstanding on my part.
007: License to Spell Doom 8-Bit Deathmatch Don't Be a Bitch Doom II Redux Doom: Rampage Edition Doom RPG (mod) Gamarra series hardcore_gamer Pacwad Rainybase Raynor's Tale RTC-3057 Demo RTC-3057: Hub 1 Temple of Chaos 2: Warped Reality Tormentor667's Detail Guide TurboCharged ARCADE! The Sequel Episode Urthar Vapordemo Void 2
30ev4416 30nm2721 30pl2523 30pn4357 30uv1959 30uv2303 30uv2325 4chan 4 Levels That Got Lost Abandonware A Better WAD Pulled Out of My Ass Assault Austerity BBG Beluga Blackrock Brandon D. Lade Brotherhood of Ruin: The Lost Temple Combat Shock 3 Community Instagib Pack Console Doom Project Curse of Blood Curse of Darkness Curse of the Demon Lord danne1 David Armstrong Deus Vult II 2 Dickie series Do It Again Doom 2 Done Quick Doom 2 the Way id Did: The Lost Episodes Doom Beyond Doomboy Doom: Carnage League Doomcon Doomguy's Warzone Doomworld Forums 2 Dotims DSV series EonDM Eon Weapons ep1-457 ep2-0327 ep3-347 ep4-0342 Epic CTF Facepalm Favillesco E3 Final Doom the Way id Did Fodders Fortune's Run Glass ceiling GL fog GL lighting Greenwar Greenwar 2 Grotesque CTF Hatred Haze Heh HPack I am not an retarded IGPack Jean-Luc Picard Kama Sutra 2 Kat Kill Frenzy KingDime Knee Deep in KDiZD KSSC Lazarus DM (series) Little Temple Group Livestreams Marines of UAC McDoomworld Mockery TC Motornerve Mouldy Old Void Muskadet Napalm Nazis! v2 Nordhell Object 34: Sonar Odamex CTF Ola-QRAD lighting Orange Is the New STARTAN Overdetailing pa07-041 PeterH Rage (mod) Rain Reticula Revelations of Doom Richard Smith Long (RSL) RicrobNet Sabbat Martyr DM scall-1453 Scroll Down for Screenshots Slaughterfest 2013 SmartCTF SpaceDM 9 Spooky series Steve Dudzik (Lüt) Submerge Deathmatch Pack Tango TV Tarnsman's Projectile Hell Taylor Team LMS The Empty Museum The Guncaster The Lost Gateway The Reactor The Shores of ZDoom The Space Pirate The Trailblazer Threshold of Pain 2 Thursday Night Survival Toke It Up! TrailBlazer Two Big, Stupid Maps UAC Ultra 2 Übik Unidoom DM 3 Unloved 2 Voidship 2 Voodoo doll scripting Way Too Many Dead Guys Women in the Doom community World Doom League World Extermination Radio xxx directory ZDoom Wars ZeroMaster ZHalloween Zombie Heart of Death
If someone wants to review these gradually, as in prior threads, feel free to edit this post and strike things out or arrange them in groups or whatever.