Archived discussions[edit]

Hexen Mac demo maps[edit]

Maps 1 and 4 are fully functional in the program they're made for, but not anything else I know of. I can try and record a video if necessary. - SiFi270 (talk) 10:30, 31 December 2021 (CST)

That doesn't seem supported by the reference linked: "A lot of lumps are far too small (4 bytes or less) to actually contain anything useful. MAP01 and MAP04 are made unplayable this way." I interpreted that as the lumps belonging to those two MAPs themselves being too small to be meaningful. If they are, in fact, proper maps playable only in the Mac demo itself, then the wording should make that clearer (I modified your edit because it wasn't clear enough, to me anyway). --Xymph (talk) 10:42, 31 December 2021 (CST)
I honestly have no recollection of what I did or didn't do back then. It's certainly possible the code I used to extract stuff was flawed and failed on these two maps. --Gez (talk) 05:42, 9 January 2022 (CST)
Could you re-check and update the relevant section if necessary? I don't have time for this, nor the tooling. --Xymph (talk) 06:12, 9 January 2022 (CST)

Yet another bot suggestion[edit]

Would it be feasible to automatically look at a wad's Soundtrack section, and then edit accordingly the and uses the music track " " part of the corresponding map's skeleton? There's certainly a fair few cases to take into account (e.g. if it starts with "MIDI version of <blah>" proper grammar would require a formulation like "and uses as music track a MIDI version of <blah>") and I'm sure there's gonna be several caveats discovered due to the lack of complete consistency in these sections. Also things like REKKR or BTSX may cause confusions due to having several identical map lumps. But since generally soundtrack information focuses on a wad's main page and forgets about the map pages, that could, if possible, cut down on tedious busy work to copy-paste information from one page to another. --Gez (talk) 05:42, 9 January 2022 (CST),.

Have pondered that a few times over the years, but "the lack of complete consistency" is exactly why I see this as unfeasible. Not just the variety of formatting styles but also the links (internal and to Wikipedia, both game titles and music artists/songs) that would need to be processed, make it an insurmountable task for me. And time-wise that doesn't even take my ballooning to-do list into account, both in covering the recent flood of new WADs and custom things lists for existing ones, as well as the DSDA demos tables still to be updated for many dozens of megawads (and then cleaning remnant linking to old DSDA). I'm longing for the summer doldrums already. ;-) --Xymph (talk) 05:54, 9 January 2022 (CST)
Fair enough. Alternative suggestion: have the map skeleton be something like and uses the [[Adding custom music|music]] track "[[Category:Map pages without soundtrack information]]". so that would give a handy way to check manually which map articles need to be updated. --Gez (talk) 06:59, 9 January 2022 (CST)
Good idea, added to templates for future skeletons. Updating existing articles will take some additional scripting and a very long bot run. Please create the category. --Xymph (talk) 08:01, 9 January 2022 (CST)
A few enhancements to pregreplGen.php sufficed with several hours of running time. Now your category has 4500+ entries. Enjoy. ;-) --Xymph (talk) 16:31, 11 January 2022 (CST)

Doomwiki edit limit faux pas[edit]

Hy Xymph! First of all, thank you a lot for checking over my recent edits and all the work you've done for this community. I'm a big fan of what you do. Second, I was wondering if there's any unwritten rule about how many edits should an user do per day? I realize that I made quite a few edits in the last 24 hours and then realized that all those edits would have to be reviewed/verified by an editor with permissions, in this case it was you, so I'm a bit embarrassed at the thought of having to prompt so many reviews and take the time of somebody else. So I was wondering if there is a suggested limit of edits? Any recommendations? Thanks, mate. Endless01 (talk) 04:26, 1 February 2022 (CST)

Thanks for the kind words. There is no rule/guideline about edit limits, and if there were, others already broke it in recent months. ;-) Fortunately a few other people also do reviews, but it is considerate of you to raise this topic. If you'd like to take one factor into account, you could take it easy on days that Recent Changes is already very busy with contributions by others, and do more on slow(er) days. --Xymph (talk) 06:30, 1 February 2022 (CST)
Happy to hear that then! I'll try to do a handful of edits during the weekdays, and see if I can work more during weekends. Happy to help out filling map stubs and making some other articles :D Endless01 (talk) 16:56, 1 February 2022 (CST)
You have been doing great work so far, thanks a lot for the time you're putting in this, and I look forward to more of your contributions :) --Dynamo128 (talk) 17:30, 1 February 2022 (CST)

Skeleton WAD pages[edit]

Hi mate! I've been creating some pages for single-level WADs and I was wondering if creating the skeletons as a initial step is the right way? Since I know there's some bots that take care of more technical stuff, I wasn't sure what was needed to be filled. Also, am I having the greatest deja vu ever but I could've swear I created the Dystopia Level page, but now it shows it was originally created in 2019? Did I miss something or am I going crazy? haha. - Endless01 (talk) 03:05, 15 February 2022 (CST)

There is only one active bot account at this time, which is mainly used for map series, not much for single-level WADs. Skeletons are generated by DMMPST so if you put in all the sections I may have to delete some stuff that doesn't apply (like the DM section here) and add all the stats etc. So you might as well create single-level articles with just the intro & links sections and wad template, then I'll paste in all the intermediate sections.
Dystopia Level was a duplicate; initially I quickly deleted it, then changed my mind and added a redirect to the existing page Dystopia. --Xymph (talk) 03:19, 15 February 2022 (CST)
Ah, I see! My bad then. I thought I searched the page to see if it was already done but I might have confused it. Next single-level PWAD page I create, I'll follow your instructions. I want to try and fill the gap that Doomer96 left. The work done by Doomer96 is is remarkable and I hope to help out as much, someday. Thanks a lot, as usual! :D - Endless01 (talk) 03:29, 15 February 2022 (CST)
Well, personally I thought the notability of the some of the WAD articles created by Doomer96 was questionable, but a lot of ground was covered indeed. And Doomer96 indeed used DMMPST to post complete skeletons with all the data, so it left less touch-up work for me (often only the map view), which was welcome. --Xymph (talk) 03:51, 15 February 2022 (CST)
Only responding now since I was out of town for a month or so, but in my absolutely humble, biased, and completely non-authoritative opinion, to "fill the gap that Doomer96 left" I say: yes please! :D --Dynamo128 (talk) 01:59, 7 March 2022 (CST)

Vrack2BiggestEver... isn't the BiggestEver anymore?[edit]

Hiya Xymph, I saw your DMMPST output for Vrack2BiggestEver - A test map of 5x Vrack2 combined into one. Well, from the same site, there is now a 2018 contender for VRack2BiggestEver as VRack2SuperHuge. It clocks in at 9.4 MB, compared to BiggestEver's 3.9 MB. Its also hosted by the Deep site. So if you want to hazard your luck for a test case, here it is - --Redneckerz (talk) 12:01, 18 February 2022 (CST)

Oh, I wasn't, but... test passed. :) --Xymph (talk) 12:21, 18 February 2022 (CST)
Much appreciated. I am almost disappointed it didn't do a dent to your utility :) But its good to have these results in and SuperHuge seems like some idiotic overkill :) Thanks for covering this. --Redneckerz (talk) 12:27, 18 February 2022 (CST)

DSDA Tables for main WAD pages[edit]

Xymph, I noticed that the bot is automatically updating DSDA tables for maps now. Do you think it's possible to get it to pull the D2ALL and Episode times and drop those into a table on the main WAD page as well? I'm not sure if this was already discussed or mentioned at all, or even how feasible it would be. Turbine2k6 (talk) 10:23, 20 February 2022 (CST)

Already brought up (and on my to-do list before that), but with the workload generated for me in recent months by Dynamo, Matador, Endless and others, I have no idea if/when I'll get around to it... --Xymph (talk) 14:34, 20 February 2022 (CST)
I feel called out lol ): should I slow down my wiki output? - Endless01 (talk) 17:58, 20 February 2022 (CST)
It's not just you, WAD additions have been coming in full throttle most of the time since October, and it's wearing me out a bit. Only the latter half of November was quieter, allowing me to develop the DSDA map records script. That was when the redlinks count dipped below 1900, but this year it's never been below 2000 anymore. Partly due to DUMP2/3 and RAMP which added 348 map links just between them, and which I'm back-burnering because large mixed format WADs are too elaborate and time-consuming to handle until Omgifol supports UDMF (of which initial development was recently resumed by Revenant). But I'm trying to keep up with all the other newly added WADs, there are not many other editors actively reviewing all contributions either, and all that just leaves little time/energy for scripting (apart from small stuff really needed asap).
The wiki is a collaborative effort and a single editor shouldn't be a bottleneck, but for scripting I guess I am. So yeah, slowing down WAD additions until the backlog is cleared would increase the chance that major scripting projects happen sooner than later. --Xymph (talk) 09:33, 21 February 2022 (CST)

Hadephobia's original soundtrack[edit]

Hi Xymph! Concerning Hadephobia's soundtrack, musics by PRIMEVAL and Jimmy were made specifically for this project. Should be sufficient for adding the "PWADs with original soundtrack" category ? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Pierrot (talkcontribs) .

Must admit I didn't fully check the track count and credits, I just saw a whole bunch of non-original entries. 9-10 out of 35 still doesn't seem like a whole "soundtrack" to me, but now that I look at the category description, it turns out at least one song is all that is required. So, cat re-applied. --Xymph (talk) 16:29, 31 March 2022 (CDT)

Pain chance percentage values[edit]

Hi, right now I am reading that you directed me to after my edit revision, and it blew my mind! Thanks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk)

You're welcome. --Xymph (talk) 02:36, 27 April 2022 (CDT)

Dating the wad[edit]

Hi, I noticed you moved Modest Mapping II into 2021 on my page. What is the policy to date the wads in general? Because I went with idgame upload date and it was yesterday or so. Probably not something that will come up very often, but who knows. --ViolentBeetle (talk) 13:41, 19 July 2022 (CDT)

I believe (without looking for sources) that long ago, the idgames upload was indeed considered the release date, and the trigger to start wiki coverage. But in recent years, so many WADs were released in beta or RC in the forums, and added to the wiki with the forums date, that the line has blurred. In particular because such WADs were occasionally Cacowarded before the idgames upload, or lingered in the forums without ever getting uploaded.
So when an RC gets covered on the wiki by someone, as was the case for MM2 (on less than half, not all associated mapper articles), with the forums date, I just use that for consistency. But the more convoluted a mod's release history, the more approximate that entry is going to be, I suppose. --Xymph (talk) 14:19, 19 July 2022 (CDT)

Bot problem[edit]

I noticed an apparent false positive edit by XymphBot, here, which was obvious as the page is not meant to be edited at all. If you can ensure this case gets ignored in the future I will revert it at that point. Appears the intent was to be editing wikilinks but apparently it also somehow matched this text in the middle of a pre-formatted block. --Quasar (talk) 00:50, 27 August 2022 (CDT)

pregreplGen.php doesn't know about pre-formatted blocks or pristine pages, it's a simple search & replace script, prompting me to confirm each change. I recall hesitating at the FAQ but didn't think much of it. Evidently thought wrong/too little. :) Reverted, and since there's nothing autonomous about XymphBot, it won't happen again. --Xymph (talk) 02:52, 27 August 2022 (CDT)
Alright thanks. --Quasar (talk) 11:28, 27 August 2022 (CDT)

Speedy delete vs unused images[edit]

As far as I'm aware unused image deletion isn't actually covered under any of the speedy delete criteria. Criteria 15 is specifically to allow for maintenance tasks like category and article (especially redirect) moves which do not result in any meaningful difference in site content. However it's going to be uncontroversial in a case like the one being referred to here and similar deletes weren't previously subjected to any prolonged discussion, so we can let it slide as far as making any unnecessary edits is concerned. --Quasar (talk) 16:01, 2 September 2022 (CDT)

True, I picked 15 because a more specific type for unused, poor quality images wasn't available, and because I indeed expected these deletes to be uncontroversial. Wasn't aware 15 is intended for more limited cases. Anyway, I already added a bunch more Hacx images to the category two days ago, so if you feel like finishing them off quickly, I have no objections. :) --Xymph (talk) 16:44, 2 September 2022 (CDT)

Titlepic upscaling[edit]

I notices that you put "scaled up to correct aspect ratio" under any titlepic you upload. I wondered whether this is historically true. Didn't Doom run correct at 320x200? I thought this was the native resolution or at least correct aspect ratio for most monitors back then.

Another thing I wanted to ask: how do you upscale your extracted titlepic lumps? Because i can see yours end up significantly smaller in size than mine. I just upscale them with paint and end up with 200-300 KB. I know this is a super beginner question but i'm curious how i can get similar small file sizes. --Gregor (talk) 19:02, 26 November 2022 (CST)

Doom ran at 320x200 but in a 4:3 aspect, not a 8:5 aspect. We have a whole article on aspect ratio; just read it. As for the proper way to rescale, do not use Paint. Personally I use Gimp, with a two-step process: first rescale to 1600x1200 with no interpolation, then scale down to 640x480 with interpolation. --Gez (talk) 07:54, 27 November 2022 (CST)
Was about to point the aspect ratio article too. As a Linux person, I naturally use a script to quickly rescale, so the efficiency is due to the GD/libpng libraries:
	// rescale titlepic.png from 320x200 to 640x480
	if ($argc != 2 || !is_file($argv[1])) {
		echo "Usage: {$argv[0]} <titlepic.png>\n";
	$file = $argv[1];
	$file2 = str_replace('.png', '-2.png', $file);
	list($width, $height) = getimagesize($file);
	$w = 640; $h = 480;
	$src = imagecreatefrompng($file);
	$dst = imagecreatetruecolor($w, $h);
	imagecopyresampled($dst, $src, 0, 0, 0, 0, $w, $h, $width, $height);
	imagepng($dst, $file2, 9);
For your File:Jumpwad title.png of 110KB, I got 48KB, and for File:Nostalgia title.png of 132KB, I got 50KB. For 800x600 in-game shots, the savings would indeed be more significant. --Xymph (talk) 08:03, 27 November 2022 (CST)
That article was an interesting read. Interesting indeed. I'm on windows, so i guess i'll try gimp and see how that changes things. Thanks for the advice to you both. --Gregor (talk) 14:13, 27 November 2022 (CST)

"use local wl for Bethesda, fix grammar"[edit]

1. That's the wrong Bethesda, there's a reason I didn't use it to begin with. Bethesda Softworks is the parent company/publisher. Bethesda Game Studios is the company that makes Fallout. The two have never been the same thing.
2. Did you not see our discussion regarding the Fallout wiki opening in 3 days (from when the post was made)? I don't think reverting all that work is worthwhile under that kind of timeframe if that's your only objection. --Quasar (talk) 11:27, 30 December 2022 (CST)

I moved/merged the thread, so... yes I read it. :) BGS is mentioned on our Bethesda Softworks article so I figured it was close enough (even considered making Bethesda Game Studios redirect to it, but now... maybe not). But I changed the sentence primarily because the old style looked like a run-on phrase (lacking a possessive apostrophe, at least). Would be okay with reverting to the wp we had before.
I didn't change any FO/related links indeed because of their wiki opening soon, and reverted only the Elder Scrolls link because it was now broken. Generally I am okay with using FO wiki links for FO topics, but am not convinced about doing that for general company links like Bethesda. Hope that addresses your concerns? --Xymph (talk) 14:59, 30 December 2022 (CST)
I don't consider our Bethesda article to be about BGS or sufficient for its coverage. Nor should it be made so, as BGS is not even relevant to Doom. So I don't have any issue having BGS links specifically going to another wiki, and would prefer that they do so, whether it's to wp or falloutwiki. Links referring to Bethesda Softworks should stay pointing to our local Bethesda Softworks article. If someone isn't sure which is which in some context, it's no different than any other incorrect wiki link being made.
It looks like for some reason the UESP article has moved to Skyrim:Skyrim on their end. I don't even see a move in the page history so I don't know how or when that happened. --Quasar (talk) 15:22, 30 December 2022 (CST)
I reverted to wp, but only now see that the apostrophe was lost in Kid's edit. Anyway, I'll stay out of it and leave remaining edits and approvals to you. --Xymph (talk) 15:32, 30 December 2022 (CST)

Changing the year of release for DMP series[edit]

Hello! I am now in the process of cleaning Doomworld Mega Project articles and one big thing that I see is that most of this articles have wrong year of release listed. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the release date is the date when the first version of the wad was released somewhere (at DW forums for example) even if it is a beta version. If so, could you please use your bot to move maps and wads in individual pages for participants of these collaborations from one year to another? I hate to do it manually. I will notice you when I'm done. --Nockson (talk) 16:23, 18 March 2023 (CDT)

For that series, see the exception. For a better understanding of my bot account, see here. In other words, it cannot be given arbitrary instructions, it just executes API commands issued by scripts. And it's not feasible to write one for this situation, even we were to agree on changing the aforementioned release year exception. --Xymph (talk) 18:52, 18 March 2023 (CDT)
That's very strange. Is there any way to make such hidden exception a part of the rules? How should anyone became aware that such exceptions even exist before making an edit? Maybe I should open a discussion at Central Processing? Nevermind, I've created a topic at Central Processing. --Nockson (talk) 01:11, 19 March 2023 (CDT)

Pyroscourge's name[edit]

Hello! By looking through Winter's Fury 2016.5 version wad (which has a lot of development commentary) I found out Pyroscourge's real name. It is clearly shown in commentary in DECORATE and not specially hidden. The question is - can I use this info right away or should I go to Doomworld and PM them, asking permission first? I didn't find some guideline about personal data in rules, but I don't want to make people uncomfortable. --Nockson (talk) 14:22, 22 March 2023 (CDT)

If it's only buried in an old release (not even in the most recent) and not plainly documented in readme/credits files, then it seems to me it wasn't the author's intention to make their name all that public. But I suppose you could ask if they don't mind. --Xymph (talk) 15:44, 22 March 2023 (CDT)

Episode or multilevel WAD[edit]

Hello! I want to discuss this edit, not for the sake of this paricular WAD, but for my future edits. IMO "Shadows of Chronos" is an episode WAD, because it is equal to a standard Hexen episode - has a hub and 5 levels around it. I thought that multilevel WADs category is for mappacks, that have unconnected maps, like smaller DMPs (fewer levels than megawad). Or am I wrong and only Doom mods can have episode WADs? --Nockson (talk) 09:05, 8 April 2023 (CDT)

Normally the threshold of multilevel sets is up to 6 maps; 7 is close enough to 8-9 to be an episode. But I hadn't realized this is Hexen, and I suppose a hub-set can also be tagged as an episode. Btw, the map list doesn't mark which one is the hub, that would be useful information. Edit: it then makes sense if intros of the pertaining map pages mention the same info. --Xymph (talk) 10:32, 8 April 2023 (CDT)
Done! Is it okay this way? --Nockson (talk) 13:38, 8 April 2023 (CDT)
Sure. It's simply the same deal as music: WAD overview page and individual map pages should be consistent with each other. --Xymph (talk) 13:58, 8 April 2023 (CDT)

DBP mapper page edits[edit]

I'm going through and adding all the WADs first. For your own sanity, it might be best to hold off on the individual page edits until I finish and just do them all in one go. --Matador (talk) 02:14, 12 April 2023 (CDT)

See here, the bulk of WAD links are done via bot script, one path at a time. There were just a few links to the series article that needed manual massaging. Edit: pregreplGen.php saved the day here too, in all but one case. --Xymph (talk) 02:17, 12 April 2023 (CDT)

Date of release[edit]

Hi! Got another question: what time zone should be taken into account when filling in the release date of mods? GMT? --Nockson (talk) 08:59, 12 April 2023 (CDT)

No idea. It normally doesn't make that much difference anyway. --Xymph (talk) 09:07, 12 April 2023 (CDT)
Example: Matador wrote in today's DBP57: Shatter Realm article that it was released on March 1, but it is actually March 2 (03:34 GMT). Some of the DBPs have the same issue. Should I fix it or leave at that? I ask because in my two DBP pages I've used the Moscow time (GMT+3). --Nockson (talk) 09:12, 12 April 2023 (CDT)
For spelling we generally use US English due to id being an American company, but also allow Standard English in specific situations. So perhaps we can apply something similar towards time zones, i.e. if a release initially happened in USA or Europe, use that time zone. But again, I dunno... perhaps a long-standing admin can advice? --Xymph (talk) 09:28, 12 April 2023 (CDT)
Got your point. Because Doomer Boards is mostly US website I will use US time. And we also have now 56 DBP pages that all use US time. Gonna fix my two articles then. (edit: dates are OK) Thanks! --Nockson (talk) 09:36, 12 April 2023 (CDT)


Hello! Sorry, but I need to bother you again. When certain content creator has different nicknames, which of them should I put into for example a map article: 1) a direct link to their wiki page which uses another nickname; OR 2) redirect but with an actual nickname? --Nockson (talk) 15:04, 14 April 2023 (CDT)

Both are in use, particularly when someone changes alias while articles and links already exist. The main thing about WAD overviews is to use the canonical path for mappers (optionally with a different link text) so that when I create the .ini file (and from that map articles), they get the correct link and author category. Keeping mapper categories consistent and unduplicated is a PITA with all these alias changes over the years, and with inconsistent spelling/casing in project documentation. --Xymph (talk) 16:51, 14 April 2023 (CDT)


Has the myhouse article been locked in some form? Or were my editing rights revoked?? When i rejected an edit just now, it didn't autocheck but instead added it to the list of pending review until you checked it. ----Gregor (talk) 16:22, 28 April 2023 (CDT)

Not that I'm aware of. Earlier edits had not yet been accepted, so I think you may have forgotten to tick the 'Accept this version' checkbox when doing that revert. --Xymph (talk) 16:38, 28 April 2023 (CDT)
Yeah, that was probaly it. Thanx ----Gregor (talk) 16:53, 28 April 2023 (CDT)

Column gap[edit]

What is the reason why i can't use wider gaps than 5em when it causes line wrapping? I personally think it looks very ugly to the eye when a list has a line wrap around like this. It can easily be remedied by increasing the gap a little. Doesn't look any worse on mobile either way. So why keep that flaw? Is there a technical reason for this or is it just the "standard way" of doing things (which i don't see by itself to be a good enough reason to not correct an visual flaw)? In other words: i'd like to use it this way, if it doesn't cause any issues with formatting, why can't i? ----Gregor (talk) 13:10, 3 May 2023 (CDT)

Because your PC, full-screen browser, and 21:9 monitor are not the measure of the wiki's layout. And a factor 3 increase is not "a little." Pages need to render (reasonably) well on a wide variety of screens, including landscape and portrait mobile devices and non-full-screen windows. The wide gap wastes a lot of space on narrower page layouts, causing the map and soundtrack columns to get crammed into a third of the body width with a huge white area in between. Personally I do consider that an ugly layout. The 5em gap layout was developed years ago by Quasar and has served us well since. Line wraps are common with long(er) map titles and extensive soundtrack credits, I don't mind them much, and it is more important that both columns are roughly equally long (that is why we play with the first column's width), and soundtrack rows align approximately with map names. And that alignment is also visually hampered by a very wide gap. But no matter how wide the gap and the first column, page layouts will vary somewhat across screens and devices. So, let's just stick to the standard as IMO it's the best compromise. --Xymph (talk) 15:25, 3 May 2023 (CDT)
Actually I rarely set my browser to full-screen nor do i have a 21:9 monitor... but i get your point. I still think that just because it's the default way of doing something and on most occasions also the correct one, means it has to be followed religiously for every situation. What is considered visually displeasing or ugly is of course very much a matter of personal taste. But speaking about compromise - if i do understand you correctly the first column's width can be adjusted. So in this case i would then increase the column's width to 40% to alleviate the problem. Is that ok? ----Gregor (talk) 16:25, 3 May 2023 (CDT)
Yeah, I was exaggerating. ;-) The big white gap between columns would always be a problem because it leaves less width for information. So it in fact results in more line wrapping in the soundtrack column. To reduce wrapping in the maps column, tweaking its width as always been the normal approach, not widening the gap. So yes, you can increase it a little bit, but as said the idea remains to keep both columns roughly equally high across a reasonable range of screen/window widths. --Xymph (talk) 07:07, 4 May 2023 (CDT)


Hello! I'm making articles for Caco RUps, yesterday I've made a page for Soulcrusher, which I'm currently editing. And my God, this mod is a mess. There are some levels inside the WAD that can't be reached inside the game, its MAPINFO contains levels that don't even exist, and for some reason I can't get past the cutscenes to check some of the levels (controls doesn't work). Anyway, I suggest to not make individual map pages for the mod. I surely don't have patience to check playability of all its levels. Maybe someone else could do it, but I'm not sure it is worth it. I wanna finish with its soundtrack and move on, let it stay as a stub for a while. What do you think? --Nockson (talk) 12:18, 4 May 2023 (CDT)

Works for me, then unlink the maps and we leave it at that. --Xymph (talk) 12:37, 4 May 2023 (CDT)

Cacowards links[edit]

Had a little issue today scrolling through Cacowards pages to plan my future work. A few weeks ago you reverted my edit on Caco2021, where I've updated DWF links to IG. But I see that you did the same thing via your bot HERE and HERE, for example. What's the difference? --Nockson (talk) 15:58, 4 May 2023 (CDT)

That's more like semi-automatic "collateral damage" of updating links on mapper pages - I could have skipped them but didn't <shrug>. The Cacoward pages use the links as published in the original articles, so there's no need to explicitly edit them for the sake of ig-ifying everything everywhere. I could have not reverted that edit, but just happened to do it in the spur of the moment <shrug>. --Xymph (talk) 02:02, 5 May 2023 (CDT)

Two questions about redirects[edit]

Hello! I know that these are probably minor things, but I still need to ask you two questions: 1) In the "Appearance statistics" sections for weapons, items, monsters etc you use redirects instead of proper links to maps and even IWADs ("Plutonia Experiment" and "Ultimate Doom" both without "The"). Is this intentional? 2) Overview articles for Doom II, Evilution and Plutonia uses "Level XX" phrases over the usual MAPXX links. I looked through these pages history and see that this is intentional, probably because vanilla Doom shows "Level XX" on the automap. And that's the reason why redirects with "Level XX" exist. However such redirects exist only for Doom II and a few maps from Final Doom. Should I create redirects of this type for all other Final Doom maps? Thanks in advance! --Nockson (talk) 16:35, 16 June 2023 (CDT)

1. Yes. That's how they're programmed into DMMPST. 2. Right. No, if they weren't needed early on in the wiki's life, they're not needed anymore.
General note 1: redirects are not evil, it is not essential to avoid them at extreme effort. Among other purposes like easier search results, they're a convenience tool for writing naturally flowing texts without insisting on writing [[link|text]] all the time. So you can use it, but it's okay not to use that link structure and keep the redirect. From that follows that editing articles solely to change redirects into direct links, is not functional and just clutters Recent Changes. If there's another, functional reason to edit an article and you feel like avoiding a redirect, then there's little harm, especially when changing a plural redirect into a pluralized links (e.g. rockets for rockets). But otherwise, just be more relaxed about redirects.
General note 2: empty lines below section headers are also not evil, it is not essential to avoid them at extreme effort, either. Edits like these are not functional and again just clutter Recent Changes. I didn't stop you in your tracks because to some degree I understand the desire for consistency when changing these in related articles that did get functional changes. But really, don't you have better things to do? ;-) Especially between header and prettytable (like in Data sections), an empty line makes the header stand out a bit better. And empty lines above big collapsible navboxes in page footers have a layout purpose, so should be restored. But not the others, what's done is done.
General advice: often it's better to leave well enough alone, until polishing it can be combined with an update that actually matters. --Xymph (talk) 14:46, 17 June 2023 (CDT)

deleting my wiki page?[edit]

i saw you nominated some page i made for speedy deletion. It was a sprite from the original doom which serves as a switch. Could you tell me what is wrong so i can fix it?

--Hey guys, i'm new to doom wiki and I am here to add some good wads, textures in doom, and more! I have an actual username on other places, but not here. Doom Is Eternal (talk) 14:23, 18 June 2023 (CDT)

Hi, the reason for the nomination is in the edit summary: "topic covered in switch, a specific focus on one mod is not needed". You can see the summary with the diff, in the page history, and in Recent Changes. For every wiki user, newcomers especially, it is recommended to keep an eye on Recent Changes how your contributions are reviewed and (possibly) edited, and learn from that.
Regarding your other question: your WAD fan post was not deleted but moved to your user area as a sandbox for possible further editing. This move was also logged in Recent Changes. The resulting redirect from main space to user space then had to be deleted. If and when the fan post evolves into an article that meets wiki standards, then it can be moved back. --Xymph (talk) 02:53, 19 June 2023 (CDT)
cool, thanks —The preceding unsigned comment was added by --unknown-- (talkcontribs) .

Wad template usage[edit]

I disagree with the usage of the wad template for the Voxel Doom page. When there's a titlepic or at least a title menu where a screenshot can be taken from (like i did for SRB2), it makes sense to use it. But in the case of Voxel Doom neither of these approaches work. The mod doesn't have a title of any sorts and simply adding a random in-game screenshot isn't the right approach here, since the in-game looks very much like vanilla Doom because the whole purpose of voxel monsters is that they look just like vanilla 2D if viewed straight. As a result a screenshot is unlikely to ever be added.

So i'd argue 'this' is very much one of those situations where the wad template is not applicable since the screenshot window can't be removed and leaving it permanently empty looks rather ugly. So not using it solves the problem. Which is why i didn't. And you also seemed to be ok with this since you didn't correct it initially. There are also plenty of examples of gameplay mod page that do the same thing, so seems to be common practice for these kind of situations. --Gregor (talk) 10:22, 20 June 2023 (CDT)

Appearances that I am on top of everything, everywhere, all at once, can be deceiving. :-) There are many reasons why I don't initially edit an edit: too busy with something else (on-wiki, off-wiki, IRL), waiting for another editor to address something first, not thinking of an alternative approach until the next day, etc.
Using the wad template is better because it nicely organizes information in the top-right corner and generates cats automatically. That is its primary purpose, the image is optional. Just because you think the screenshot invitation message looks "rather ugly" is not a good enough reason not use the template, IMHO. Other gameplay mods don't have a screenshot either (yet?), but the template still serves its main purpose. Various other gameplay mods don't use the template, and maybe for a better reason than not having an appropriate image. So that doesn't mean someone should now go overboard on adding it everywhere, it depends on individual circumstances. Plenty level WADs don't have a screenshot yet, but that's no reason to revert to manual cats until they do, either.
For Voxel Doom, if a screenshot is not so meaningful when "they look just like vanilla 2D if viewed straight", then how about making one from a angle (e.g. on the side of a monster that hasn't woken up yet, or of a rotating weapon)? And if that's too difficult, then maybe we need the wad template smarter (noshot=true parameter, similar to nocat=true in {{map}} ?) instead of dismissing it. --Xymph (talk) 12:52, 20 June 2023 (CDT)
Yeah, the option to remove the screenshot window would be a welcome addition. That would solve the problem and still allow the option to add one later. Always nice to have more options. I agree that the wad template should be used whenever possible. The only reason i didn't do it here is because i feel using in-game screenshot images in place of an official titlepic is undesirable, the screenshot window can't be removed and i saw other pages also didn't use one. But i now see the error in my ways. --Gregor (talk) 13:18, 20 June 2023 (CDT)

Removing wikilinks for author of Voxel Doom[edit]

I forgot to ask then, but why did you remove the wl for the name of the author, Cheello, from the Voxel Doom article and the Cacowards 2022 page, and in fact all articles on the wiki? So far his only contribution is this one mod, but Voxel Doom II is slated for release in the coming months, and his work on Voxel Doom (plus the Cacoward) warrants a potential page, no? Just curious, because there are many red links for other author pages that seem to be just fine. --Gregor (talk) 10:40, 27 June 2023 (CDT)

You mean all three articles? :) We have guidelines for people articles and the main criterium is to have done something notable, with most examples being plural. I don't follow mod plans and unreleased mods explicitly don't count anyway. Other criteria are gaming-related personal information and external resources (like a personal Doom page or a YT/Twitch channel). When none of that is available, like in this case (as far as I could find), then what would probably result is a one line/one work stub page. Does that help the wiki? I think not, we have plenty stub pages like that already, and it's very unlikely many will ever get enough content to be de-stubbed. See also the related discussion about mappers. So I think we shouldn't automatically redlink people names as has happened often in the past and have occasionally unlinked others -- but I don't have time, inclination or enough insight to go a pruning spree through the entire wiki, nor is that the intention of the criteria. Thus the existence of other people redlinks, nor thin stub pages, shouldn't weigh in heavily as precedents. As stated in the criteria, "determinations must be made on a case-by-case basis in many instances." So if in the future, Cheello releases another notable work that is covered on the wiki, then sure, create an article. And that is when it is the right time to (blue)link a name everywhere -- not now, preemptively and prematurely, IMO. --Xymph (talk) 12:57, 27 June 2023 (CDT)
Understood. Well, Cheello actually does have a YouTube channel, but i agree with the demand for multiple noteworthy releases. --Gregor (talk) 02:21, 28 June 2023 (CDT)

Heretic pre-release screenshots[edit]

Hello! Once again I need your advice. In one of the issues of CD-only magazine "Interactive Entertainment" I found several screenshots of pre-release version of Heretic (this was discussed on Doomworld in 2021). I think they are important for the wiki. I've edited them a little: removed black bars and corrected aspect ratio. But the question is - can I upload them using standard HerHex license? Because I didn't actually take them - it was either Raven or someone from the magazine's staff. Is any additional license tag needed? --Nockson (talk) 13:00, 6 July 2023 (CDT)

Not a specialist in this subject matter, but the screenshot-herhex license covers "the design and artwork depicted in the screenshot" -- not who took the shot. And it seems to me that this applies to pre-release shots just as much as post-release ones. See also e.g. Quasar's article for Hexen: Beyond Heretic Screenshots (hexenscn). --Xymph (talk) 17:02, 6 July 2023 (CDT)

Name change[edit]

Hey Xymph, sorry to bug you again, I know I'm a PITA but I swear this will be the last one. As I have completed my de-transitioning, could I ask you to add my real name (Cristiano Montanari) to my article (thelokk)? I'd do it myself but I'm afraid of breaking links or stuff like that. Thanks!

Disclaimer: this is no comment on any kind of transition, that's a personal matter. But there was a name addition 11 months ago, a name removal 6 months ago, and now there should be a name addition again? Wtf? Each time this affects the wiki on dozens of pages and it's the kind of double/triple work nobody likes. So for the wiki it would better to just stick to the alias. --Xymph (talk) 08:50, 14 July 2023 (CDT)

Thing counting on maps[edit]

Hi, after looking at the table of things for Tribute Quilt, I discovered a few unfortunately placed difficulty flags that I'd like to fix and re-upload fixed version to idgames while it's not too late. Should I then fix the table manually, or ask you to run your bot again? --ViolentBeetle (talk) 16:53, 10 August 2023 (CDT)

When the second re-upload is moved into newstuff, I'll grab it and rerun the bot script. --Xymph (talk) 02:12, 11 August 2023 (CDT)

Freedoom Phase 2 music[edit]

Hi Frans, can you please help with cleaning up this WIP page a little? e.g. adding a description like the other soundtrack pages? Thanks. Blursphere (talk) 16:49, 21 August 2023 (CDT)

Nope, no knowledge about, nor spare time for, that topic. --Xymph (talk) 16:51, 21 August 2023 (CDT)


Hi! Regarding this and this edits: I did it so the articles wouldn't get lost in a sea of source ports' names. Another way to fix this is to create a category called "Source ports by name". What do you think? --Nockson (talk) 13:17, 24 August 2023 (CDT)

With the sizable influx of port articles in the past year or two, I agree it's time for "Source ports by name", analog to subcat "PWADs by name". Then the related but non-primary topics don't need a sorting asterisk anymore. The ones currently still using an asterisk are fine though. --Xymph (talk) 13:52, 24 August 2023 (CDT)
I've created the subcat. Should I manually move cats there or is there some way to automate this process? --Nockson (talk) 14:19, 24 August 2023 (CDT)
Automation - we don't want to clutter RC with +/- 170 tiny edits, and I guess you're not too eager about such a monotonous job either. But I don't have a script ready for this particular task, so it'll take some coding/preparation. Patience. --Xymph (talk) 14:52, 24 August 2023 (CDT)
Great, thanks! I know you don't like RC clutter, that's why I asked. (I sometimes like to perform monotonous activities, they help to relax my brain a little.) --Nockson (talk) 15:00, 24 August 2023 (CDT)

I think I weeded out the actual ports from the related articles. Main SP cat is now much more manageable indeed. --Xymph (talk) 12:23, 27 August 2023 (CDT)

Yes, it looks much better. Thank you! --Nockson (talk) 12:31, 27 August 2023 (CDT)

Article deletion[edit]

Hello. I would like my DoomWiki article ( to be deleted and protected from recreation. Thanks. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Thelokk (talkcontribs) .

I am sorry, but what is the reason for this? Besides the work needed to restructure so many articles to match this new reality, I hope you realize a wiki page is not a personal space, but a neutral catalogue of information that is useful for people to have when looking up WADs and such. --Dynamo128 (talk) 14:29, 2 September 2023 (CDT)
My bad, had an episode, disregard the above request. Will make sure it doesn't happen again. Thelokk (talk) 04:06, 6 September 2023 (CDT)
On Sep 4, you had the idgames archive maintainers remove eight of your works from the archive. That is your right, but raises the question: why? You removed six of them from your wiki article... oookay. But yesterday, the other two were re-uploaded: exactly the same as before, and with changes to the .wad but not the .txt. They ended up at the same paths in the archive, but because of the intermediate removals, received a new ids in the Doomworld interface, requiring another update. Updating releases should be done by simply uploading a new version, with an optional note to the maintainers, then they will keep the same id. And the identical removal/re-upload was completely unnecessary.
Nope, I don't think your "episode" ended. --Xymph (talk) 02:44, 8 September 2023 (CDT)
I took note of the same thing myself and was going to ask if there was any particular reason behind the deletions but ultimately decided against it. Either way, as far as the wiki is concerned, I'm willing to guess we generally want any person's body of work to be as complete as possible, including works that are no longer available for one reason or another. It is information after all, and a wiki's mission is generally to preserve as much of it as possible to my understanding. That said, Thelokk's choices are their own, and if they prefer to have parts of their history removed (as sad as it makes me that they would in the first place), I'm not one to stop them. --MF38 (talk) 03:03, 8 September 2023 (CDT)
I agree about information preservation, but if there is no link left for a file, then there's little point in preserving only the file's name. Exception is of course when the work already has a wiki article. I checked DSDA but it didn't have those six files. I could have gone on a wider search or tried the Wayback Machine, but that didn't seem worth the trouble. --Xymph (talk) 03:46, 8 September 2023 (CDT)

Episode replacement[edit]

Hello! I want to fix all inclusions of the word "episode" that are used for mods and not for IWADs. What do you think is the correct name for them: "episode replacement" or "episode replacement mod/WAD"? --Nockson (talk) 16:26, 11 September 2023 (CDT)

Replacement already indicates it's a mod, and the target paragraph already defines it as a "set of fan-made levels". So, the former suffices. Btw, replacing existing wikilinks to Megawad#Episode_replacement from before the redirect to the same, would not be a wise use of time. Only where episode is used where ep.replacement was meant, would be useful to update, as you did a few times already. --Xymph (talk) 16:47, 11 September 2023 (CDT)

Heretic HUD Face[edit]

Hi, I noticed that the HUD face used in Heretic's deathmatch mode looks quite similar to the player character's face in prior Raven release Shadowcaster (the resemblance is more clear if you resize Kurt's face to the dimensions of Heretic's HUD). Where should/would I put this information, and how? MargaretThatcher (talk) 15:30, 22 September 2023 (CDT)

Not familiar with this topic area. --Xymph (talk) 16:02, 22 September 2023 (CDT)
We have a status bar article, add it to the Heretic section there. --Dynamo128 (talk) 16:20, 22 September 2023 (CDT)
Correction: The face actually appears in the intermission screen post-deathmatch. I don't know what page this would fit, though.MargaretThatcher (talk) 17:33, 22 September 2023 (CDT)

Possibly new glitch?[edit]

Was playing doom 3 Resurrection of Evil and a pretty goofy but also very intriguing glitch happened to me. I’m on an iPhone, is there any way to upload a video into here? . NewsReporter (talk) 16:02, 25 September 2023 (CDT)

No, and the wiki isn't the place for speculation about possible glitches anyway. You could start a topic on Doomworld, it might not be new either. But if it is and if it's worth documenting on the wiki, then the topic can be used as reference. --Xymph (talk) 16:25, 25 September 2023 (CDT)

WADCAT full name[edit]

Hello! Could you please comment here because you renamed that page using a supposedly incorrect name. --Nockson (talk) 16:10, 1 October 2023 (CDT)


Hello! I've updated Pyroscourge alias (see this post). Is there a way to automate the process of changing their category in all the map pages too or should I do it manually? Also, [[:Category:StarScream levels|this category]] should be merged with theirs. Can you please explain how to properly do that? --Nockson (talk) 06:11, 19 October 2023 (CDT)

All done. I don't think it is really necessary to update the alias in the intros of map pages or the WAD articles though - that is how those releases were published at the time. --Xymph (talk) 06:24, 19 October 2023 (CDT)
Thank you! --Nockson (talk) 06:28, 19 October 2023 (CDT)

Code tags[edit]

Hey, I've got a small question: should I replace all instances of html code tags with the c template? I saw you did this to tt tags (and remembered it as the right thing to do), but I'm not sure about the code because it looks different - it has some sort of frame which the c template lacks. --Nockson (talk) 12:49, 9 November 2023 (CST)

There's a guideline about those. Inline <code> tags are still used in special situations like code pointers and alike, but normally the 'c' template should be used. --Xymph (talk) 13:13, 9 November 2023 (CST)
Ah, thanks! Just fixed it here. --Nockson (talk) 13:17, 9 November 2023 (CST)
That falls under "alike" situations, I'd say. And in cases like a command-line parameter with an argument, it also visually helps to group them together. I suppose there's a grey area here... --Xymph (talk) 13:31, 9 November 2023 (CST)

Unreviewed redirects[edit]

Hello! I see a lot of old valid redirects in Special:UnreviewedPages. I've just checked two of them - Icon of Sin and Icon Of Sin. Is it right? Should I proceed? --Nockson (talk) 11:02, 21 November 2023 (CST)

I started on those yesterday already (and wrote a script against the database to assist and did speedy deletes of meaningless/unused ones), so thanks for asking but let's not both go in there. Also, capitalizing any wiki link/redirect is unnecessary since MediaWiki already capitalizes the resulting HTML link. Instead, perhaps you can add PUSS28 to all participating mappers? --Xymph (talk) 11:10, 21 November 2023 (CST)
Got it! Will do PUSS then. --Nockson (talk) 11:17, 21 November 2023 (CST)

All done. --Xymph (talk) 15:55, 24 November 2023 (CST)

I can't help but ask again, because I see that you've created several "missing" redirects, is there a need to create redirects for Final Doom in the format "Level XX"? (see section "Two questions about redirects" above, from June of this year) --Nockson (talk) 16:03, 24 November 2023 (CST)
Back in 2008-2009, TheGreenHerring went to some length to create shortcut redirects sans PWAD name, but in a megawad series sometimes forgot one or several. I merely completed those series for consistency, but didn't even bother with Hell Revealed II which goes only up to MAP10. For Final Doom, only Plutonia MAP30 and MAP32 have 'Level xx' redirects, and the MAP30 ones aren't even properly capitalized. None are used anywhere, so I'm more inclined to remove those, and leave only the MAP32 ones since that's probably Final Doom's most renowned/notorious level. Beyond that, my answer remains the same, I don't see the point in expanding the old terminology. --Xymph (talk) 11:16, 25 November 2023 (CST)
For what it's worth, I agree with Xymph here, especially considering that currently, in virtually every section of the community, the terminology of "MAPXX" is absolutely widespread and widely understood in a way that it may not have been in the past where terms like Level 01 may have been more liberally used in such contexts. I think Level XX redirects are wholly anachronistic as a result, and not needed. --Dynamo128 (talk) 11:21, 25 November 2023 (CST)
Thank you both for your answers! Consider this case closed. --Nockson (talk) 11:32, 25 November 2023 (CST)

Trouble with redirects' anchors[edit]

Hello! I want to make redirects for all Heretic cheat codes and link them to the table in the article, similar to Doom codes. However, redirects with anchors (in preview mode) for some reason continue to point to the beginning of the article, and not to the corresponding row inside the table (that is, when I open a link from a preview of the redirect). I suspected the problem was with the c template, so I removed them, but nothing changed. Do you know what can cause this? Am I doing something wrong? --Nockson (talk) 14:34, 2 December 2023 (CST)

Add span id's like in Doom cheat codes. --Xymph (talk) 14:38, 2 December 2023 (CST)
Thanks! It's nice to learn something new. --Nockson (talk) 14:56, 2 December 2023 (CST)

Notability, self-promotion and redlinks[edit]

In the interest of getting some clarification to the ongoing discussions about notability and self-promotion, how do you feel about WAD authors creating pages for their own works if they've already been redlinked? I'm mostly asking this in relation to the redlinks for Gomorrah, which I've been contemplating creating a page for but refraining from out of respect for the rules against self-promotion. Would you see it as such if I were the one to create the page, given that I'm the wad's author? And more importantly, do you deem Gomorrah notable enough to warrant a wiki page in the first place? --MF38 (talk) 04:50, 3 January 2024 (CST)

Thanks for asking. It was Dynamo who redlinked it and the release topic looks favorable, so it seems notable indeed. Thus I think you creating the article is no problem. --Xymph (talk) 05:10, 3 January 2024 (CST)
Alright, thanks for the swift response! --MF38 (talk) 05:43, 3 January 2024 (CST)


Apologies for editing the Bonus level page "live" while you were constantly approving my edits. I should probably learn how to use my userspace as a sandbox before properly publishing edits. Individualised (talk) 06:01, 23 February 2024 (CST)

Not necessarily, but please use the Show Preview and Show Changes buttons to carefully and repeatedly check your edits before submitting them. --Xymph (talk) 06:03, 23 February 2024 (CST)